Proving a male het

[Griggs2121]

I'm just curious as to ways of proving my male het albino. I bought it at a show for what I thought was good price for a possible het. This little guys parents were both 100% het, and there were albinos in the clutch. I believe this gives me a 66% chance of mine being a het.

What is the most common way for people to prove their hets? I almost wish I would "borrow" (hehe, although not likley) someones het female, or find someone who needs a het male.

I would just prefer not to spend the big money on a het female, especially if mine turns out to be 100% normal.

I currently have a normal female that if he turns out to be normal, I would just breed just for the fun. But if I had a chance for albinos, I'd like to look into it.

Suggestions?

albino het females run $500-600?

[Adam_Wysocki]

I get asked this one all the time via emails and phone calls and I always tell people that the best way to do it if you have more time than money is to breed your possible het male to a normal female and keep all of the female offspring.

If he is a het, they will all be 50% possible hets ... if he's not, they are normals and still worth good money once they are breeding age. (Unfortunately, you won't know for sure until you produce a homozygous offspring or give up trying.)

The next step is of course to raise up the girls that you kept until they are sexually mature (normally 2 - 3 years).

Finally, you breed the girls back to their dad and see what you get. The tricky part is that even if you get all normals, your male could still be a het and you just missed on the odds ... so you might have to go 2 - 3 breeding seasons to try and prove him.

An interesting twist would be while you're raising up the girls that your male produced, buy a 100% het male to breed to them when they are sexually mature. 100% het males are much cheaper than 100% het females and would do 2 things for you .... 1. Mix some new blood into your project and 2. give you guarenteed 50% possible hets in your second breeding in case your original male doesn't prove out.

Alternatively, possible het females are always an option, but that makes things even more complicated .... as in "which one wasn't the het" if no homozygous offspring are produced.

-adam

( now I wait for the post from someone *cough* about "markers" ... )

[Griggs2121]

Yea, the only bummer part of that is it becomes about a 5 year project.

What are markers?

[Stings]

yea do markers mean anything in your opinion Adam? i know its just an opioion but seeing the sankes you breed i would take your word for it. i think. lol

[Adam_Wysocki]

I'm not a big fan of "markers".

If you breed a het to a normal, markers or not, 1/2 of the babies either could be or could not be hets. That's just the way the genetics game is played. There are no short cuts.

Over the last 10 years, I've heard people claiming that there are markers in just about every simple recessive morph on the market and in those 10 years I've yet to see anyone provide any real evidence that shows they are valid other than "this guy said" or "i heard about xx% proving out" or "i read it on kingsnake so it must be true" .... When I'm presented with real evidence that you can look at a certain trait on a suspected heterozygous animal and know with 100% certainty that it will prove out, then maybe I'll come around. Until that day, my opinion is that markers are just "wishful thinking" for many people that desperately want to get into producing morphs without spending a whole lot of cash as well as a way for the people that are jealous, bitter, and resentful that they can't afford the high end morphs they desire to "bring the market down" by accusing professional breeders of knowingly using markers to deceive the public.

I have no problem with the former ... dreaming big and holding on to the idea of a "marker" in hopes of hitting the jackpot is a good thing as long as you are aware that the "dream" you are holding on to comes with no certainties and is just as likely to not work out as it is to hit big.

As for the latter ...

For whatever it's worth, I had a friend that was having trouble trying to sell some possible het pied girls because they didn't have the marker ... The father was a 100% het male, the mother was a normal ... He said that everyone asked him about the marker and when he told them that none of the babies had them, they all walked away .... I ended up buying every single one, because in the end ... marker or not ... they are ALL 50% possible hets and as good as gold to me.

-adam

[Stings]

Thanks you for clearing that up for me. in November i will be getting my first BP i would like to get a normal female at a reptile show. from there i would like to get a 100% het pied male and hope to breed it in a few years. i know i cant afford one the normal way so ill have to do it the long way. the information you gave would definitely help when i buy the het pied and not get ripped off. garter snakes growing up was fun so im sure ill enjoy the upgrade.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Thanks you for clearing that up for me. in November i will be getting my first BP i would like to get a normal female at a reptile show. from there i would like to get a 100% het pied male and hope to breed it in a few years. i know i cant afford one the normal way so ill have to do it the long way. the information you gave would definitely help when i buy the het pied and not get ripped off. garter snakes growing up was fun so im sure ill enjoy the upgrade.

If you buy a 100% het pied from a reputable breeder, there is no way you'll get ripped off ... marker or not.

As you move forward in your breeding endeavors, remember ... living creatures are not something you want to do "on the cheap" ... buy from any of the top breeders in the business and you'll do very well!

Good luck!

-adam

[Griggs2121]

Thanks for all the info, and I guess I'll just see what sort of bounces go my way here. Just out of curiousity, what are the "markers" for albino? I understand, they probably dont mean anything, but I'm still curious.

[Stings]

Adam i was looking at the available Snakes you have. do you ever sell your 100% Het males?

[Adam_Wysocki]

Adam i was looking at the available Snakes you have. do you ever sell your 100% Het males?

Shoot me an email ... For me, the forums are just for fun, not business ... I'd be more than happy to help you offline.

adam@8ballpythons.com

Thanks!

-adam