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  1. #31
    BPnet Veteran MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    From the insurance perspective, it is more likely to get your policy cancelled than the rate increased if you haven’t disclosed your pets up front. Most homeowners or renters policies either completely exclude animal liability (any animal), or provide very limited liabilty coverage geared towards domesticated pets (but excluding vicious breeds, live stock, and exotic pets). There are probably specialized companies where you could purchase coverage, or possibly add on coverage you could purchase, but nothing I know of that is automatically inclusive for exotics.
    I was referring to health insurance. I’m assuming if they knew you had a venomous animal, which they would if you had to register it and notify hospitals, they would raise your rate or drop you.


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  2. #32
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL1561 View Post
    Yeah not worth it imo Personally I don’t think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. It’s dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. There’s no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldn’t. I’m sure this would jack up your insurance as well. There’s also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I haven’t heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. I’m certain I’ll receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it it’s not worth the risk.
    What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? I’m guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesn’t need anymore bad press.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You can have your opinions, I'm sure many people don't think normal citizens should keep any animal period. I'm glad you feel the way you do, but unfortunately, if you don't agree with what I keep feel free to move on to another post. I don't need somebody who doesn't know or understand things to come on my thread and posting some junk. Thanks and have a good day.
    Last edited by Neal; 03-26-2019 at 09:21 PM.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




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  4. #33
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL1561 View Post
    Yeah not worth it imo Personally I don’t think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. It’s dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. There’s no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldn’t. I’m sure this would jack up your insurance as well. There’s also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I haven’t heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. I’m certain I’ll receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it it’s not worth the risk.
    What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? I’m guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesn’t need anymore bad press.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This thread wasn't started by me but as a previous long-time keeper of hots, I'd like to address some of the points you brought up, & offer another perspective.

    It was NEVER on my wish list to be involved with any venomous snakes, but I moved to a part of the desert Southwest where 6 kinds of rattlesnakes also resided.They got into people's yards, garages & even houses in a misguided effort to just survive, & one way or another it often didn't end well. People with no experience trying to move or kill snakes is a recipe for injury, moreover it's disrespectful to animals that were there first & served as a relevant part of the ecosystem. I didn't want any snakes, harmless or venomous, to be killed or injured, nor for the same to befall my neighbors. What then to do?

    About that time I was offered (& talked into accepting) a rattlesnake that could not be released & was unwanted by the current owner. I honed my skills with that one, & thereafter offered free help to local residents to remove & re-locate (unharmed) any snakes, including rattlesnakes. I also ended up with various non-native pets that owners no longer wanted, including BPs. I soon did many educational programs by invitation, most at our local nature museum, some with harmless-only snakes, & others that focused on rattlesnakes & for which I typically took one of each kind* of our local rattlesnakes to show & talk about. (*I ended up with other un-releasable ones too.) I didn't start out as a "professional" with rattlesnakes+ but I saw a need & filled it. No children in my household, btw...& I have MORE than a healthy respect for self-preservation.

    I can appreciate where you're coming from though: I'd have no objection if all states had the same strict regulations for private individuals keeping hots. As it was, it was not an issue where I lived (not in town!) & the only permits I had to apply for were for some non-local & non-native hots that were essentially dumped on me. I was never at odds with Fish & Game or other laws. Since I did so many public programs though it IS a wonder that my home insurance never hassled me. My local agent knew me though, knew what I was about & how careful I was (& am). For that matter, I had 4 big dogs & was never charged extra for that either. I do agree that the sales of hots should be regulated carefully...to protect humans and also the snakes from improper care. I can remember the time a young woman keeping a gaboon viper (illegal where she was- a heavily-populated area) was found dead from a bite. You're correct that we don't need any more bad press about snakes. Statistically, most such bites are sustained by young males, but either way, it should never be about "proving oneself". Requiring permits like the one I had to get takes care of that: after an interview, the application was extensive...I submitted something like a 'term paper' about what I was doing & why- I was very specific. I had to have references including a local vet. And then an agent inspected my home & caging, filed a report, & reserved the right to check back without notice (-they never felt the need). BTW, the permits weren't cheap & had to be renewed yearly.

    You mentioned that hospitals are somehow required to carry antivenom to treat such bites, but that's not true. Of course, they did where I lived since rattlesnakes were native, but they would not have carried any for cobras etc. In case of an accident, a treating hospital would likely obtain it from the nearest zoo, which would then diminish the zoo's ability to respond adequately if a bite happened to occur before they could replace what was used. I'm sure you know that the cost of such treatments are astronomical & anyone without insurance will be in huge financial trouble. Even with insurance, hard to say how much they cover. The risks are not to be taken lightly, which is why keeping hots requires sobriety & maturity...but it can be done safely and with dedication.

    One of the long-term captive rattlesnakes that was turned over to me came shortly after a modest earthquake (so typical in So. Calif.). The explanation was that they decided it now HAD to go...they suddenly realized that the cage could have turned over in the 'quake releasing a scared & upset snake in their home- that it was just luck that it didn't happen that time. So yes, it's not a decision to take lightly. I'm happy to say that none of my hots ever escaped, but I had no sooner visited a special rattlesnake exhibit (with WAY too many captured for the 'show' ) in a Palm Springs museum when I learned that I'd only just missed it: the "professional" in charge had allowed the escape of one rattlesnake, & then failed to close the premises until it was found. It surprised a woman viewing their room-sized "diorama" which was NOT enclosed behind glass...it had only a 6" curb along the floor.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-26-2019 at 11:49 PM.

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  6. #34
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Anyways, let's keep the thread on topic. He gave a lot of wrong information out, and it's because he doesn't know anything regarding that subject. Also because of that, he needs to do some research before he starts to post.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




  7. #35
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL1561 View Post
    Yeah not worth it imo Personally I don’t think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. It’s dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. There’s no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldn’t. I’m sure this would jack up your insurance as well. There’s also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I haven’t heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. I’m certain I’ll receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it it’s not worth the risk.
    What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? I’m guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesn’t need anymore bad press.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Also, since I'm at a computer now, I'll actually feel free to give you a lesson today since you are posting stuff as if you actually know it to be true when in fact it's not. So before I begin, if you're going to post on my threads, do some research.

    1.) Actually in order to obtain a permit here in Louisiana, you have to provide proof of at least 1,000 hours of documented experience in working with venomous.
    2.) About your dangerous for the keeper or anyone else in the house. I can die from a drunk driver or get struck by lightning walking out in a thunderstorm, everything has it's own risks. It's also not dangerous to anybody in the house if you follow the rules set forth on the permit, hence being responsible. This means you're not going to have your animals or kids in the room when you have your venomous snake out.
    3.) It does not require hospitals to carry antivenin of anything that I keep, this is one of the things you should of actually researched before posting, because as I stated in another post, you clearly don't know or understand anything about venomous keeping.
    4.) Housing insurance has nothing to do with me keeping my venomous snakes.
    5.) I don't want to be a Herpetologist, and if again you knew anything regarding venomous keeping, I have went through the required steps to keep venomous snakes, and I'm also regulated by Louisiana Fish & Wildlife. Which means I have to abide by a certain set of parameters in keeping.

    Some of the rules:
    1.) Notificaion of relocation of facilities shall be made within thirty (30) days of a move.
    2.) In the event of an escape of a restricted snake, notification shall immediately be made to the Department of Wildlife & Fisheries at #.
    3.) A Secure transport container shall be required to transport venomous snakes away from any field collection sites.
    4.) Restricted snakes shall be kept in a secure, escape proof enclosure with doors that lock, or such secure enclosures shall be enclosed in secure, escape proof rooms that are kept locked except when the animals are being fed, the cages are being cleaned, or otherwise worked by the person trained and experienced in proper care, handling, and use of the species being maintained. Entrance doors shall be kept securely locked on all outdoor enclosures to prevent escape and unauthorized intrusion and the enclosure shall be equipped with barriers to prevent visitors from falling into the enclosures that are constructed below ground level.
    5.) Facilities that house constrictor snakes in excess of twelve (12) feet or venomous snakes in private possession shall be open to inspection prior to issuance of a permit and at other times deemed necessary to ensure compliance with the permit by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries personnel or other persons authorized by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries to perform such inspections.

    So in the event you are actually keeping them how it's outlined in the rules, even if it escapes your care while having out of it's enclosure, it shouldn't escape the room unless you are in violation of the rules anyways. I don't need to have an argument of why I should or shouldn't keep. You don't make the laws, nor do you pay any of my bills. I also don't have any kids, and I don't have any other pets aside from my snakes.

    With that being said, you stick to what you actually have knowledge about, and I'll stick to everything I have knowledge about.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




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  9. #36
    BPnet Veteran MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    Also, since I'm at a computer now, I'll actually feel free to give you a lesson today since you are posting stuff as if you actually know it to be true when in fact it's not. So before I begin, if you're going to post on my threads, do some research.

    1.) Actually in order to obtain a permit here in Louisiana, you have to provide proof of at least 1,000 hours of documented experience in working with venomous.
    2.) About your dangerous for the keeper or anyone else in the house. I can die from a drunk driver or get struck by lightning walking out in a thunderstorm, everything has it's own risks. It's also not dangerous to anybody in the house if you follow the rules set forth on the permit, hence being responsible. This means you're not going to have your animals or kids in the room when you have your venomous snake out.
    3.) It does not require hospitals to carry antivenin of anything that I keep, this is one of the things you should of actually researched before posting, because as I stated in another post, you clearly don't know or understand anything about venomous keeping.
    4.) Housing insurance has nothing to do with me keeping my venomous snakes.
    5.) I don't want to be a Herpetologist, and if again you knew anything regarding venomous keeping, I have went through the required steps to keep venomous snakes, and I'm also regulated by Louisiana Fish & Wildlife. Which means I have to abide by a certain set of parameters in keeping.

    Some of the rules:
    1.) Notificaion of relocation of facilities shall be made within thirty (30) days of a move.
    2.) In the event of an escape of a restricted snake, notification shall immediately be made to the Department of Wildlife & Fisheries at #.
    3.) A Secure transport container shall be required to transport venomous snakes away from any field collection sites.
    4.) Restricted snakes shall be kept in a secure, escape proof enclosure with doors that lock, or such secure enclosures shall be enclosed in secure, escape proof rooms that are kept locked except when the animals are being fed, the cages are being cleaned, or otherwise worked by the person trained and experienced in proper care, handling, and use of the species being maintained. Entrance doors shall be kept securely locked on all outdoor enclosures to prevent escape and unauthorized intrusion and the enclosure shall be equipped with barriers to prevent visitors from falling into the enclosures that are constructed below ground level.
    5.) Facilities that house constrictor snakes in excess of twelve (12) feet or venomous snakes in private possession shall be open to inspection prior to issuance of a permit and at other times deemed necessary to ensure compliance with the permit by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries personnel or other persons authorized by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries to perform such inspections.

    So in the event you are actually keeping them how it's outlined in the rules, even if it escapes your care while having out of it's enclosure, it shouldn't escape the room unless you are in violation of the rules anyways. I don't need to have an argument of why I should or shouldn't keep. You don't make the laws, nor do you pay any of my bills. I also don't have any kids, and I don't have any other pets aside from my snakes.

    With that being said, you stick to what you actually have knowledge about, and I'll stick to everything I have knowledge about.
    Take a chill pill If you’re willing to take the risk without good reason all the power to you. Nothing I said was false..... you are not required to contact hospitals but it’d be smart if you don’t want to risk death. It sounds like YOU went through the proper motions and are heavily regulated by your state. Although remember that not all states and keepers are the same. You can justify your animals anyway you want but there’s no reason to have venomous animals. Sometimes we need to pause and realize every hobby has its limits. For example weapons, a normal citizen having a rpg or a tank is too far Also, you said you don’t take your snakes out around your kids. Well what if it escapes? What if your kid breaks into the enclosure? Kids will do stupid crap no matter how many times you tell them not to. Good luck man The only reason I posted is because there are a lot of young/new keepers on here. You creating threads promoting how cool these animals are can result in people getting the wrong idea. 99% of keepers should not keep venomous snakes imo. They should be left to professionals kept for specific reasons such as rehabilitation, education, etc. Keeping deadly animals isn’t cool, it’s stupid. It’s like those people that keep lions and say how they’re big teddy bears until it eats their kid.
    Well.... anywho good day and I will leave your threads alone.


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  10. #37
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    I agree, venomous animals are far more prettier than non venomous ones. Especially snakes, and cobra is the most beautiful imao. And its not just subjective opinion. Venomous animals meant to be standing out to alert everyone right? I dont know about this species well, but i am surprised to see this tiny gutter-snake looking cobra still got a beautiful cobra head! I love it!

    Although i wouldn't keep venomous snake when i live with my children... it's not my business as long as the snake stays in the owner's house! I like America because one of the fundamental is 'mind your own business'

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  11. #38
    Venom Life Neal's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL1561 View Post
    Take a chill pill If you’re willing to take the risk without good reason all the power to you. Nothing I said was false..... you are not required to contact hospitals but it’d be smart if you don’t want to risk death. It sounds like YOU went through the proper motions and are heavily regulated by your state. Although remember that not all states and keepers are the same. You can justify your animals anyway you want but there’s no reason to have venomous animals. Sometimes we need to pause and realize every hobby has its limits. For example weapons, a normal citizen having a rpg or a tank is too far Also, you said you don’t take your snakes out around your kids. Well what if it escapes? What if your kid breaks into the enclosure? Kids will do stupid crap no matter how many times you tell them not to. Good luck man The only reason I posted is because there are a lot of young/new keepers on here. You creating threads promoting how cool these animals are can result in people getting the wrong idea. 99% of keepers should not keep venomous snakes imo. They should be left to professionals kept for specific reasons such as rehabilitation, education, etc. Keeping deadly animals isn’t cool, it’s stupid. It’s like those people that keep lions and say how they’re big teddy bears until it eats their kid.
    Well.... anywho good day and I will leave your threads alone.


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    I am chill, my hostility that you took is from you coming here and spewing things you have no knowledge on. You did say something false and myself along with one other person pointed it out. You stated hospitals are required to keep antivenin they wouldn't normally stock. That's false, aka you spreading information you have no clue about. Hospitals aren't required to store anything. I don't disagree with the fat that 99% of keepers shouldn't keep venomous, but if you're properly trained, and are smart about it, then it isn't an issue. Also you clearly either didn't read what I said, or didn't comprehend, so I'll bold it for you when I said I don't have kids.. My snake can't escape, that's the reason the enclosures have to be lockable. You can't keep venomous snakes in an aquarium like you can a ball python. You actually have to have proper locking enclosures and if they deem it unsafe. This is also the reason the room is to be locked and closed when you're not in it, and it's to be closed when the snake is out.

    If you want to make a better impression, come about things the right way, don't do it like you did. Also take that if junk elsewhere. If I won the lottery, if this happened or that happened. People are going to do what they want to do in the end.
    -Venomous-

    1.0 - Naja siamensis - Zeus (Black & White Spitting Cobra)
    1.0 - Naja n. woodi - Hades (Black Spitting Cobra)
    0.1 - Naja nigricollis - Athena (Black-necked Spitting Cobra)

    coming at some point in the future
    Naja annulata (Ringed Water Cobra)




  12. #39
    BPnet Veteran MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Newest venomous addition

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal View Post
    I am chill, my hostility that you took is from you coming here and spewing things you have no knowledge on. You did say something false and myself along with one other person pointed it out. You stated hospitals are required to keep antivenin they wouldn't normally stock. That's false, aka you spreading information you have no clue about. Hospitals aren't required to store anything. I don't disagree with the fat that 99% of keepers shouldn't keep venomous, but if you're properly trained, and are smart about it, then it isn't an issue. Also you clearly either didn't read what I said, or didn't comprehend, so I'll bold it for you when I said I don't have kids.. My snake can't escape, that's the reason the enclosures have to be lockable. You can't keep venomous snakes in an aquarium like you can a ball python. You actually have to have proper locking enclosures and if they deem it unsafe. This is also the reason the room is to be locked and closed when you're not in it, and it's to be closed when the snake is out.

    If you want to make a better impression, come about things the right way, don't do it like you did. Also take that if junk elsewhere. If I won the lottery, if this happened or that happened. People are going to do what they want to do in the end.
    Welp...I definitely understand why you don’t have kids


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  13. #40
    Registered User fadingdaylight's Avatar
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    In spite of the tension in this thread, I feel like it has presented a good bit of relevant information about the intricacies of keeping venomous snakes. I have no intention of probably ever keeping them myself, but I do have respect for them, and I am enjoying learning about what goes into the care and keeping of them, so I appreciate the learning opportunity.
    - Jason


    "Why should I fear what others fear? How ridiculous!" - Lao Tzu

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