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  1. #21
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    I understand!

    The first bullsnake I encountered in the wild hissed and struck wildly. Not too surprising, though. It was sleeping beside a log, and my buddy and I rolled the log over it before realizing it was there. Another bullsnake had the most rotten disposition I've ever seen in a snake. That one had been in the posession of a local kid for two weeks before I got her. The kid had ruined her dispossion and her nose by banging on the box several times a day until she struck at the wire top. I forgave her for everything because she laid eggs a few weeks later and then became my first breeder female snake. Setting dogs on a bullsnake is another way to terrify it.
    I guess I don't understand your post...While the observations you cite could certainly influence one's thoughts on a bullsnake's ability or willingness to defend itself while being molested; the behavior exhibited by a few (or all of them) while being abused would not be information I would use to understand their demeanor.

  2. #22
    BPnet Lifer Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    I understand!

    The first bullsnake I encountered in the wild hissed and struck wildly. Not too surprising, though. It was sleeping beside a log, and my buddy and I rolled the log over it before realizing it was there. Another bullsnake had the most rotten disposition I've ever seen in a snake. That one had been in the posession of a local kid for two weeks before I got her. The kid had ruined her dispossion and her nose by banging on the box several times a day until she struck at the wire top. I forgave her for everything because she laid eggs a few weeks later and then became my first breeder female snake. Setting dogs on a bullsnake is another way to terrify it.

    After writing all that, I can also say that most of the wild bullsnakes I've encountered have been good tempered to start with and get better with time and handling. Captive bred bullsnakes are better. I don't keep bullsnakes now. The state protects them. Which means you can kill every one you see; you're unlikely to get caught.

    I've kept an assortment of snakes from the Pituophis group (pine snakes, bullsnake, and gopher snakes). Sonora gophers are great, and black pines are the most mellow of the ones I've had.

    Of the kings, I've only had California kings. They are more timid than corns but are generally good.

    Milks are snake eaters. That turned me off the whole milk snake group. But if you want one, go for a Honduran. They are bigger and have prettier colors than most of the USA milks.
    There’s a few snake eaters though to be fair to Milks ... Kings ... even those beautiful Woma pythons eat lizards or snakes. Woma’s eat many species of Australia's most venomous snakes and is actually immune to venomous snake bites.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




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    Bogertophis (03-12-2019)

  4. #23
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I agree, you can't hold what they eat in the wild against such beautiful & fairly docile snakes like milk & king snakes. I happen to keep a Texas longnose snake-
    he is tricolor (orange-red/black/cream) & eats nothing but f/t fuzzy mice, though in the wild he'd prefer lizards & probably smaller snakes. They aren't common
    as pets though, because they are very difficult to get started on an alternative diet. They have a small & narrow mouth, & a slender build, so they are fed multiple
    small prey rather than sizing up to larger mice; a typical meal for him is 5 f/t fuzzies, though he's currently fasting for winter. I must be doing something right (?)-
    he's 17 years old.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-12-2019 at 01:09 PM.

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    Alter-Echo (03-12-2019),Dianne (03-12-2019),Zincubus (03-12-2019)

  6. #24
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by bns View Post
    I guess I don't understand your post...While the observations you cite could certainly influence one's thoughts on a bullsnake's ability or willingness to defend itself while being molested; the behavior exhibited by a few (or all of them) while being abused would not be information I would use to understand their demeanor.
    Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?

  7. #25
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?
    That's a decent theory that actually makes some sense...the ones making the most commotion survived (didn't get stepped on, or were dropped by other startled
    predators such as hawks or foxes). Since none of my bull snakes continued that defensive behavior, I'd say they learn quickly & retain who they are not at risk from.
    We snake-keepers should know better than to take it 'personal', no matter what kind of snakes we're keeping company with. They nearly all learn not to be defensive
    when we handle them respectfully.

  8. #26
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?
    Ok. I see what you are saying but I don't understand how the conclusions became reputation unless its because people hear it, read it, people say it and people believe it without experiencing one properly. When they do encounter one they are handling it too securely out of a preconceived notion that it will be a handful...thereby creating the 'handful'. How else do folks witness this extreme behavior? In my experience with picking up more than 100 documented wild Bullsnakes is that they rarely react with any defensive behavior at all. They will often be flighty (crawling through your hands trying to get back on the ground) but even this is very short lived for most. Therefore, in my experience, it makes it very difficult to grasp the underserved reputation unless the snakes are being molested in some way.

    I've read the theories about snakes making a ruckus (vibrating tails/hissing) to alert large mammals to avoid being trampled...I only have one problem with these theories...why don't they put on this show when I approach? Most stay frozen until I'm very close, some allow me to kneel right beside them to get a photo and never move until I pick them up but I have never had one Bullsnake make a peep without physical contact and it's very rare (in my experience) they would do so even during initial contact.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative about this...just sharing my observations.

    Wild Bulls pics:

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlimR3gRzgwNe7q4N
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmSRWIbCzNV7dxThO
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlnVs_kj19i41r1_0
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlmUG7wsPPujqRXmz
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmTOxH2KiZ_1e2JHm
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VllIOnYgn2VwcOn1f
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlnJxGhWHMJIHkHe2

  9. #27
    Registered User Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Which snake to get after a Corn?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLreptile View Post
    I plan on getting something at this summer's reptile expo. But it won't be a Corn. All I know is that I want a colubrid. I was thinking a Gopher or a Bull, but that hissing would be a turn off. I like Milks but which sub-species to get. Maybe even a Garter? King?

    So what's the next step up? Think, something in the still-a-beginner-stage.. Thx.
    Have you considered a red tail boa? Sure they can get some size to them but takes several years. My experience is that they are mellow even as babies. Sure it is a time investment to bond with them as they grow to full size in 5 to 7 years. By then you should know the animal well enough to deal with the size.

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