So the UK Really Banned Spider Balls

[MasonC2K]

Correction to title: Should be IHS in the UK



This is sad. They should know better.

[Bogertophis]

Sorry but it really doesn't ruin my day (while I know it's a "slippery slope") and Brian really needs to drink a LOT LESS COFFEE. Just sayin'...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks it's lousy to breed animals with known neurological impairment.

[MarkL1561]

Sorry but it really doesn't ruin my day (while I know it's a "slippery slope") and Brian really needs to drink a LOT LESS COFFEE. Just sayin'...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks it's lousy to breed animals with known neurological impairment.

Yeah but having politicians make a decision that greatly impacts the hobby and it’s economy based on ignorant opinion is not good policy. If you don’t agree with it fine, don’t tell others what they can think and do. I have a adult male bumblebee and I’ve never even noticed a wobble. These animals are perfectly healthy. What about English bulldogs? On average an owner spends around $5,000 a year on vet related bills. They have eye, skin, hip, and stomach issues. They also have issues with seizures as well. So should we ban bulldogs as well?


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[Treeman]

Yeah but having politicians make a decision that greatly impacts the hobby and it’s economy based on ignorant opinion is not good policy. If you don’t agree with it fine, don’t tell others what they can think and do. I have a adult male bumblebee and I’ve never even noticed a wobble. These animals are perfectly healthy. What about English bulldogs? On average an owner spends around $5,000 a year on vet related bills. They have eye, skin, hip, and stomach issues. They also have issues with seizures as well. So should we ban bulldogs as well?


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However, I don't think its a politician's "ignorant opinion". As shown by the other posters above, even experienced keepers have reservations about keeping/breeding spiders. If a politician banned retics for example because they thought they were dangerous and scary, that would be an ignorant opinion. Me personally, I doubt I would keep a spider. They look beautiful, and a lot of them don't show any neurological defects, but I don't think I could live with owning one and seeing it do some of the things I've seen some spiders do in videos.

[Crowfingers]

YThese animals are perfectly healthy. What about English bulldogs? On average an owner spends around $5,000 a year on vet related bills. They have eye, skin, hip, and stomach issues. They also have issues with seizures as well. So should we ban bulldogs as well?
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To be frank, yes. Dogs of this breed and those with similar conformation should be banned from breeding as well. As a vet tech of over 15 years, I have not need a 100% healthy bulldog ever. And not just unhealthy or age related issues, but true issues stemming from the malformation of their faces, bad genetics, and issues that are rarely seen in other breeds. They can't even give birth on their own, all bulldogs are brought into this world via c-section because their heads are too large to pass through the females' pelvis.

Many purebred dogs are prone to issues, but few are prone to as many and in the high percentage that the English and french bulldogs are. Doodles are prone to allergies, labs can have bad hips, boxers can have bad hearts, there is lots of cancer along purebred lines - but these other breeds can eat, breath, reproduce, run, play, etc and lead far more normal lives when compared to the brachiocephalic breeds. So yeah, the breeds should not exist.

As far as the snakes go - how do you measure comfort in an animal that lacks simple social cues? Even a dog with arthritis so severe that it can't squat to urinate or get up on its own will eat and wag its tail when its owner comes home. A good Appetite and the lack of "vocal pain signals" like whining or crying out do not mean that that dog is not in chronic terrible pain. I image snakes are no different. If you are born with discomfort and never know any different, the drive to eat and survive will outweigh the pain. Very few animals just lay down and die pain. The survival instincts to eat and breed overpower that. It's why we don't often catch illness in our pets until it is severe. They hide weakness too well.

In my opinion breeding anything that has such a high outcome of defects mean the line should be discontinued. There is the argument that the original spider was wild caught, but again - the population would never reach what we have made it. Only those rare individuals without impairment would survive to reproduce and the gene would remain fairly rare and recessive. I don't see that as a support to breeding them just because we can care for their defects im captivity.

[Crowfingers]

Timed out - either we as breeders and a community take it upon ourselves to decide what is moral to continue to do OR an agency of the government steps in a makes a law - either way it happens, as long as the interest of the animals are at the heart of it - the I'm ok with the lines being discontinued. Same with banning of wild animals as pets, invasive animals being kept in certain states, etc. I don't mind who creates the rule if the outcome is to the benefit of the creatures involved.

[Jellybeans]

I so agree

Sorry but it really doesn't ruin my day (while I know it's a "slippery slope") and Brian really needs to drink a LOT LESS COFFEE. Just sayin'...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks it's lousy to breed animals with known neurological impairment.

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[royalreilly]

Ehh... I mean he's spreading false info by making it sound like the UK itself has banned spider balls. Yeah he corrects it, but only in his pinned comment. Nowhere in the video or title did he feel the need to change what he said.

I personally stand more on the side of not supporting the breeding of spiders. I would never buy one to support breeders making more of them. I understand and respect people who want them to continue to be bred. But for the most part the only people I see getting really upset and defensive about it are breeders who get a lot of money from breeding spider morphs.

I don't think it's fair to the snakes to keep breeding them if they have a neurological defect. We have no honest way of telling how it really affects them, if they're suffering at all, etc. because we can't ask them. I don't think it's worth is for a pretty pattern when there's so many other morphs out there.

It's just my opinion though. I think they're very beautiful snakes and I wouldn't mind even owning one, as long as it was a re-home / a rescue and didn't support the breeding of more of them.

I think this video is a great example of how a wobble can actually affect the livelihood of a snake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HYaQjF74_I I know not all spiders have a wobble this bad, but this just breaks my heart to watch, and after seeing videos like this I simple don't want to support the breeding of spiders, because there's always a chance they'll end up like this.

And I think this video by Amazing Animal Adventures does a great job of explaining the wobble and the problems with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uflWWZhmoYM

[gunkle]

Ehh... I mean he's spreading false info by making it sound like the UK itself has banned spider balls. Yeah he corrects it, but only in his pinned comment. Nowhere in the video or title did he feel the need to change what he said.

I personally stand more on the side of not supporting the breeding of spiders. I would never buy one to support breeders making more of them. I understand and respect people who want them to continue to be bred. But for the most part the only people I see getting really upset and defensive about it are breeders who get a lot of money from breeding spider morphs.

I don't think it's fair to the snakes to keep breeding them if they have a neurological defect. We have no honest way of telling how it really affects them, if they're suffering at all, etc. because we can't ask them. I don't think it's worth is for a pretty pattern when there's so many other morphs out there.

It's just my opinion though. I think they're very beautiful snakes and I wouldn't mind even owning one, as long as it was a re-home / a rescue and didn't support the breeding of more of them.

I think this video is a great example of how a wobble can actually affect the livelihood of a snake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HYaQjF74_I I know not all spiders have a wobble this bad, but this just breaks my heart to watch, and after seeing videos like this I simple don't want to support the breeding of spiders, because there's always a chance they'll end up like this.

And I think this video by Amazing Animal Adventures does a great job of explaining the wobble and the problems with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uflWWZhmoYM

Wow. Didn't know this was even a thing. Guess I need to look into it more before purchasing my snakes. Thanks for the links.

[RickyNY]

Wow, that video. My banana spider is not bad at all, he strikes with accuracy. He'll twist his neck in a weird way but only when he's roaming around and looking at the top of his enclosure, otherwise he never does it.