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  1. #1
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    Can someone help me figure this out?

    Hello guys,

    Silly question but I've just finished my first ever breed and now have to wait for the eggs to hatch, for some reason I'm just struggling to break down what these parents will likely produce.

    Parents:

    Male - Banana Enchi Pastel x Female - Spotnose het Clown

    Sorry for the noob question, I'm trying to work towards a Banana Spotnose Clown, so my idea was to breed a het clown back to the mom and hopefully produce a spotnose clown to breed to the dad. I'm not sure if my idea is good or not, I just really wanted to try something cool for my first ever project.

    Can you let me know if I'm thinking about this in the right way?

    Thanks in Advance!

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran redshepherd's Avatar
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    The main issue would be you don't know which hatchlings are actually het clown or not, so you will have to hope for the best and prove them out.
    To me, it would be more worthwhile to just purchase a banana het clown male to try and get a banana spotnose clown upon the first breeding, or at least have 100% viable hatchlings to breed back to the parents to get a higher chance of your banana spotnose clown.
    Last edited by redshepherd; 01-27-2019 at 04:30 AM.

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  3. #3
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    Re: Can someone help me figure this out?

    Thanks for the response!

    Unfortunately I've had my Banana Pastel Enchi Male for a long time and the female was the most recent pick-up, I know I'll have to prove them out but I figured it was an okay option because I could also end up with some cool pastel/enchi traits along the journey.

    I would love to buy a Spotnose Clown instead of having to prove out the het but it's 5 times the price in my country and that seems a bit excessive to me.

  4. #4
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    Re: Can someone help me figure this out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Thanks for the response!

    Unfortunately I've had my Banana Pastel Enchi Male for a long time and the female was the most recent pick-up, I know I'll have to prove them out but I figured it was an okay option because I could also end up with some cool pastel/enchi traits along the journey.

    I would love to buy a Spotnose Clown instead of having to prove out the het but it's 5 times the price in my country and that seems a bit excessive to me.
    Ah well that sounds good then! I think as long as you're happy with the gene results, either way that's all that matters.

    Spotnose clown is indeed expensive, which is why I'd just go with a banana het clown male instead, which are much cheaper and you'll still have a chance at your goal. I don't know which country you're in, but they're only $225 on morphmarket! Males also don't take so long to sexually mature like females.
    Last edited by redshepherd; 01-27-2019 at 04:57 AM.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Can someone help me figure this out?

    I live in South Africa, sadly there are no banana het clown males available at the moment but I'll keep a look out! Thanks for the advice!

    One last question though, What are my possible outcomes from Banana Pastel Enchi x Spotnose het Clown?

    I'm just trying to see possible outcomes and what my odds may be but i'm still on basic punnet squares and working out that many genetics is a bit difficult for me at this point.

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    BPnet Veteran redshepherd's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone help me figure this out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    I live in South Africa, sadly there are no banana het clown males available at the moment but I'll keep a look out! Thanks for the advice!

    One last question though, What are my possible outcomes from Banana Pastel Enchi x Spotnose het Clown?

    I'm just trying to see possible outcomes and what my odds may be but i'm still on basic punnet squares and working out that many genetics is a bit difficult for me at this point.
    This pairing generator makes things much easier! http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

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  7. #7
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    Re: Can someone help me figure this out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    I live in South Africa, sadly there are no banana het clown males available at the moment but I'll keep a look out! Thanks for the advice!

    One last question though, What are my possible outcomes from Banana Pastel Enchi x Spotnose het Clown?

    I'm just trying to see possible outcomes and what my odds may be but i'm still on basic punnet squares and working out that many genetics is a bit difficult for me at this point.
    Wow! That is a five gene pair problem, with added complications because banana is a sexlinked gene. IMO, only someone who enjoys pain uses a Punnett square for a problem involving more than two gene pairs. Calculators are useful but still being able to do a problem with pencil and paper is good if a calculator is unavailable.

    The way to work this sort of problem is to break it down into five problems, one problem for each gene pair. Then put the results together in a tree or forkline diagram. Many genetics texts still only use the Punnett square. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square for an example of a forkline.

    Male - Enchi Pastel Banana x Female - Spotnose het Clown involves 5 gene pairs. Enchi, pastel, banana and spotnose are codominant to corresponding normal gene. Clown is recessive to the corresponding normal gene.

    Male gene pairs:
    Gene pair 1 = an enchi gene and a normal gene (produces enchi appearance)
    Gene pair 2 = a pastel gene and a normal gene (produces pastel appearance)
    Gene pair 3 = a banana gene (Y chromosome) and a normal gene (X chromosome) (produces banana appearance)
    Gene pair 4 = 2 normal genes (no change in appearance from normal snake)
    Gene pair 5 = 2 normal genes (no change in appearance from normal snake)

    Female gene pairs:
    Gene pair 1 = 2 normal genes (no change in appearance from normal snake)
    Gene pair 2 = 2 normal genes (no change in appearance from normal snake)
    Gene pair 3 = 2 normal genes (1 normal gene in each X chromosome) (no change in appearance from normal snake)
    Gene pair 4 = a spotnose gene and a normal gene (produces spotnose appearance)
    Gene pair 5 = a normal gene and a clown gene (Het clown gene pair produces no change in appearance from normal snake)

    As the object is a banana spotnose clown, we only need use gene pairs 3, 4, and 5.

    Results:
    male x female --> 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) male, 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) female
    normal x spotnose --> 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) normal, 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) spotnose
    normal x het clown --> 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) normal, 1/2 (= 0.5 = 50%) het clown (no clowns)

    As the banana parent is a male, figure approximately 90% of the male hatchlings are banana and 10% of the female hatchlings are banana.

    Best you will get from this pairing are banana spotnose het clown.

    (0.9 * 0.5) * 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.1125 = 11.25%. Each egg has a 11.25% probability of hatching out a male banana spotnose het clown

    (0.1 * 0.5) * 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.0125 = 1.25%. Each egg has a 1.25% probability of hatching out a female banana spotnose het clown.

    Unfortunately, there is no way to identify the het clowns except by breeding test.

    The banana spotnose het clowns may also be enchi, pastel, neither or both.

    The other eggs will hatch out babies that are not the banana, spotnose and het clown combination. Of course, the actual results from one clutch will not match the expected results simply because of the luck of the draw. I figure this problem would produce 64 unique genotypes, and one clutch is unlikely to produce even a dozen eggs.

    This skips over steps rather that doing each step in order. See if you can get the results for all the gene pairs.

    Good luck.

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    Stealth (02-04-2019)

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