Snake won't eat.

[Phoenix Rising]

I have been working really hard getting the temps and humidity on target in both of my snakes habitats and have them perfect for the last 36 hours or so. SO proud to have that done. I have not fed them yet since advice has said not to till those other things were in place. Well... today was the day. I started with Imani. I put him in a plastic container that had paper on the bottom. My mouse was thawed, warmed and ready as I read by many how to prepare it. Imani grabbed it immediately and did awesome. After letting him rest for 30 minutes in the container I VERY gently put him in his vivarium. He's active and busy.

Then came Nyah. I did the exact same thing with her and she was all over the tub looking around but would not have ANYTHING to do with that rodent. She looked at it, doing little tongue flicks and all, but would have nothing of eating it. I finally gave up and put her back in her tank.

Now, there is one thing that I'm thinking is weird with her. She shed about 8 days ago. It surprised me since I am new to all this. There was the shed, appearing at least to be all in one piece. A few days ago, I noticed a lot of broken up skin on her. She seems to be shedding but not in one piece for sure. I put her in a container with about an inch of warm water in it for a soak for 10 minutes with me watching her constantly. She was not amused at first but settled down to seem like she was enjoying it. I have seen pieces coming off and such. I'm nervous at the thought about if I should help peel any off too.

Would the shedding or lack thereof be the cause of her not wanting to eat? What am I doing wrong? This new snake mom is seriously stressed!!! What to do?

[Bogertophis]

Feed them IN their normal enclosure*...at night (or evening)...wait until they're peeking out of their hide (BPs are ambush-predators!) rather than when they're
exploring cage...DO NOT handle* your BP prior to offering food (disrupts feeding instincts for many, stresses snake). And don't feed snakes that are blue (in
shed cycle) nor any that have not completed the shedding process. Put their thawed & warmed prey on a "plate" (of some kind, cardboard ok, to avoid sub-
strate sticking to it) ONLY IF they don't grab it from tongs with a slight wiggle to appear life-like. And yes, if the old shedding skin is coming off EASILY, it's
fine to help out gently...I probably would too.

*Biggest (but not the only) issue that worked against you was putting your snakes in another container. You got lucky the first time, that's all.

[Hannahshissyfix]

1. A little stuck shed is usually no big deal (besides eye caps and tail tips) and people are way to quick to think the snake needs the unnecessary stress of a bath. Give them a bigger water bowl and let them soak if they want to.
2. Don't use a separate feed box. I know that seems to be coming back in with more inexperienced keepers sharing info but it's also unnecessary stress and sometimes a reason the snake won't eat. How did you present the ft? Was it just set in the box or presented on tongs by the shoulder scruff? Not sure when you tried, but feeding at night after a room has been quiet for a while and the light kept as dim as possible before offering does wonders. Another very successful trick is holding the ft while the snake is in it's hide and just barely wiggling it by the hides entrance. That's usually when they feel the safest to eat. You have to remember that their eating is the most vulnerable time for them so some (not all) will only have the opposite results by being handled, then put in an open, exposed box and being expected to eat. There are a few other tricks but I'd just give it another week before offering again and try a different approach. Good luck and congrats on your new friends!

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[Phoenix Rising]

Argh!!! I had put them in a seperate container because I read this was best and to leave them alone for 30 minutes after they had their meal and then gently put them in thier home and leave them alone. Sooo much advice and so much doesn't agree.

I'll try with Nyah in a couple days again, first getting more shed off of her and then we'll do it in her enclosure.

Thank you for your help.

[Phoenix Rising]

Thank you for the info. I was honestly trying to do it right. I put the frozen yuckie in a cup of hot water, changing the water twice so it was fully thawed and warm, squeezed it out some and used tongs and held it by the tail and wiggled it.

Both snakes have water bowls and a moisture box that has sphagnum moss and water in it to add more moisture to the environment. The humidity is about 50% set up that way.

[Bogertophis]

... I was honestly trying to do it right...

We know that, and no one's "mad" at you, you're still learning. We KNOW the wrong info is out there...that's why this forum is here...to help you get it right the
next time & from then on, and so that you'll pass on the right information too, when the subject comes up.

There are other kinds of snakes that wouldn't care or be put off at all by what you did...but ball pythons aren't among them. If you want an EASY snake, get a
corn or other rat snake, a bull snake, a king snake, a boa or even an Australian spotted python. But "beeps" are beeps...

[dakski]

Glad Imani ate. Sounds like he will not be issue.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is mad at you either. You are learning and eager to learn.

However, when BP's are young, like any young animal, the margin for error is smaller (not small with a 4 month old BP - but smaller). A full grown/adult BP can go 6-8 months without eating and I wouldn't think twice. However, at 4 months, I would begin to make sure they eat after 3-4 weeks max of missed meals. You should keep that in mind.

Just an observation, and not picking on you at all, and we all have done it. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Try to get all your ducks in a row and then do X, whatever that is. It seems you are doing a lot of trial and error and that's okay, as long as nothing dangerous is happening, which it does not appear to be, but it's better to put off feeding a young BP an extra day or two and ask all the questions you want, for example, then try to feed, stress the snake, and have to wait 4-5 days to offer again, which you should do.

If you don't know, eating is stressful on a snakes body, but also his/her psyche. For a shy creature like a BP, especially a young one, they have to be vulnerable and in the open to eat. Worse, if they are offered food, but do not want it, and are moved to another container in addition, etc. this compounds stress. The food becomes a stressor. You do not want that. You do not want to reinforce that food is stressful or negative.

Having said all that, a few, hopefully, helpful points.

1. I 100% agree that you should feed them in their enclosures. I have 4 different species of snakes (BP, Carpet Python, Corn Snake, and Boa) and 6 snakes in total. ALL eat in their enclosures for a variety of reasons. Some are for the snake's benefit and some are for my safety as well (don't feel like moving Behira - Female BCI back into her tank when in food mode when she's 6FT or so and 10-12 pounds). BP's are shy creatures and will find about any excuse not to eat. Your job as a keeper is to give them every reason to eat. Some other snakes will eat anything, anywhere, anytime (corn snakes and many colubrids and some Boids).

2. When you offer the food, are you just leaving the F/T prey in with the snake, or are you making it appear alive to them? The latter would be placing on tongs and gently moving a bit near the snake (but no in their face, etc. - let them come to it) to try to illicit a strike. If after a minute or two they do not seem interested, or do not strike, leaving is okay for up to overnight, but not longer. Some snakes do not care and will eat without much stimulation. My BP, Shayna, doesn't need much and is shy and actually prefers that I leave the rat for her to pull into her house and eat quietly on her own. However, most snakes want some stimulation. Again, gently move on the tongs, but not in a dramatic way or in the snakes face or intruding on his/her space. No lifting hides, blocking hide entrances, etc.

Also, remember, there are commonalities between species, but there are also differences within species. Different snakes can, and do, have different personalities as well. Keep that in mind. You will have to learn, over time, what you animals like the best.

3. In another post, I listed the best technique for defrosting and offering F/T prey. Did you follow that? It seems like you didn't, which is your prerogative, but I am not 100% sure you are defrosting and offering properly either.

I will list the steps again below. However, DO NOT defrost in hot water. Warm water at best. I prefer room temp to warmish water (70-90F to start) and let it cool down to room temp over time. If defrosting large prey, or many prey items, etc. I sometimes add a little warm water half way through the defrosting process.

Why not use hot water? Would speed up the process, right?

Yes, it would, but that's the problem. Snakes eat RAW food. They like raw food (actually live food stimulates them most) and digest raw food and are designed to digest raw food. If you put a prey item in hot water, it will start to cook (look up Sous Vide, if you do not know what that is). The smaller the prey item and the hotter the water, the faster it cooks. Snakes cannot properly digest cooked food and know this. Even if the prey item is 5% cooked medium-rare, it's a turn off for the snake and not good.

Room temp to slightly higher temperature water takes longer to defrost prey in, but it won't cook the prey item(s) either. They will stay raw. This is super important. So is the 30 seconds hot water trick or hair dryer trick at the end, especially for BP's, and most pythons, because of the heat pits. Smell alone may not entice a BP to eat. They want this heat pits picking up a nice, strong, heat signature as well.

Please see below for that step by step process, keep asking questions, keep learning, do not beat yourself up at all, and keep us posted.

GOOD LUCK!



This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-. Less if smaller prey and longer if bigger prey (however longer does not hurt smaller prey).

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey - Large rats, for example).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP on tongs. Wiggle gently to make it appear alive.

[Zincubus]

Everything's been covered already really ...

For what's it's worth ... I don't peel off any stubborn skin after my Boa took offence and bit me

Best way I've found is to wrap the snake in a damp , rough textured towel and let it slither around as long as you can ... when it's head pops out just cover it with the excess towel and keep going .
You can apply very gentle pressure .... any stubborn skin will come off on the towel .


As regards feeding ... feed inside their viv / tank / rub ... in the evening . I feed in dim or low light . Mine all strike from within their hides so I put some card down on the floor outside the hide , heat the rat / mouse well with a hairdryer then instantly dangle it in front of the hide entrance .. if there's any interest like the tongue flicking you mentioned simply repeat the heating and offering procedure..

Good luck !


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[Phoenix Rising]

Well... I seriously messed up but I guarentee it will not happen again. I did some things right. I was careful to get the tanks in the proper heat/humidity conditions and have it steady before trying to feed. I followed some of dakski's directions but missed a lot. I think I overloaded my brain with all I read. I have been reading everything I can about BPs... maybe too much? Some of the last things I read were about feeding in a seperate container.

I have learned and I WILL do it differently next time.

Speaking of... when should I try to feed Nyah again?

Thank you all for clarifying and teaching and having patience with me without condemnation. I honestly appreciate it more than I can say.

[dakski]

Well... I seriously messed up but I guarentee it will not happen again. I did some things right. I was careful to get the tanks in the proper heat/humidity conditions and have it steady before trying to feed. I followed some of dakski's directions but missed a lot. I think I overloaded my brain with all I read. I have been reading everything I can about BPs... maybe too much? Some of the last things I read were about feeding in a seperate container.

I have learned and I WILL do it differently next time.

Speaking of... when should I try to feed Nyah again?

Thank you all for clarifying and teaching and having patience with me without condemnation. I honestly appreciate it more than I can say.

I would try to feed Nyah, in her tank, at night, with dim lighting, etc. in 4-5 days.

Also, you are very welcome. I/we are always happy to help people who want the best for their animals are willing to listen and do what is necessary.