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  1. #61
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    how do breeders lose money? this seems like a rather unlikely situation. equipment and animals are a one time cost. recurring costs of feed electric and maintenance is minimal. i can see if you are going big and renting commercial property you can go down the toilet but that's not my goal. i just want to do this for myself and make a little extra on the side.

    Ever hear of breeders losing all or most of their collection from contagious diseases that affect all or most of their animals. It happens. Especially with keepers who
    don't take the time to quarantine properly & routinely disinfect properly, and even among those who are just unlucky. It happens more often to those who don't
    bother to learn about the diseases & parasites that may affect their animals, & to those who take short-cuts and underestimate the risks.

    I used to know a very private guy that bred & sold very high-end reptiles: he once confided to me that he was "amazed that people are willing to pay so much money
    for an animal that can just get sick & die." Because unfortunately that happens to breeders and pet owners alike.

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  3. #62
    BPnet Senior Member MR Snakes's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    how do breeders lose money? this seems like a rather unlikely situation. equipment and animals are a one time cost. recurring costs of feed electric and maintenance is minimal. i can see if you are going big and renting commercial property you can go down the toilet but that's not my goal. i just want to do this for myself and make a little extra on the side.

    Ever hear of breeders losing all or most of their collection from contagious diseases that affect all or most of their animals. It happens. Especially with keepers who
    don't take the time to quarantine properly & routinely disinfect properly, and even among those who are just unlucky. It happens more often to those who don't
    bother to learn about the diseases & parasites that may affect their animals, & to those who take short-cuts and underestimate the risks.

    I used to know a very private guy that bred & sold very high-end reptiles: he once confided to me that he was "amazed that people are willing to pay so much money
    for an animal that can just get sick & die." Because unfortunately that happens to breeders and pet owners alike.


    And I'd bet that insurance for that business is either non existent or through the roof.

  4. #63
    bcr229's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    how do breeders lose money? this seems like a rather unlikely situation. equipment and animals are a one time cost. recurring costs of feed electric and maintenance is minimal. i can see if you are going big and renting commercial property you can go down the toilet but that's not my goal. i just want to do this for myself and make a little extra on the side.
    Females don't produce a viable clutch every year. Sometimes they just don't go, sometimes they slug out, sometimes the babies die in the egg or the eggs go moldy and fail, or the babies are born kinked, or they fail to thrive.

    Some males take a few years before they figure out what girls are good for. I have one that didn't lock with a female until after his fifth birthday.

    Equipment failures: heat tape and thermostats are electronic devices that will eventually fail and have to be replaced. Enclosures crack or leak, or have doors broken because snakes are a lot stronger than they look. Tubs warp or crack, water bowls get dropped and break, etc.

    Consumables: You don't think of cleaning products as expensive until you realize that you're using a 15-roll case of paper towels every week to clean tubs and enclosures. Substrate, especially a type that helps maintain humidity, isn't cheap. Mite treatments aren't cheap, and you still need them for proper quarantine even if you never have a major outbreak.

    Vet bills: you can give your snakes the best of care but they can still get cancer or other infections. I spent $4500 at the vet getting a retic treated for a c-diff infection of her intestine that caused it to become completely blocked, which required surgery to correct and there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent her getting it.

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  6. #64
    BPnet Senior Member MR Snakes's Avatar
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    Did the OP go awol?

  7. #65
    BPnet Veteran Dianne's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by artgecko View Post
    Cage maintanance is something that I haven't seen many people comment about.. you, OP, said something in a post several pages ago (something like "clean the cage once a month or not at all if you do bioactive". I wanted to address this because it is a big mis conception for those not keeping.

    When maintaning animals, especially growing, young, or breeding animals that are fed weekly, you can expect them to urinate at least once a week, with solid waste correlating with feedings, so feed 1x a week, expect 1x a week urination and poop. This can sometimes take longer (for solid waste) but usually urination is frequent. I check my racks and cages daily and spot clean (remove soiled areas of the bedding) or remove all the bedding (for rack with paper). Sometimes, a snake will urinate on Monday (and I'll clean it) then that same snake will deficate on Tuesday, necessitating a complete cage clean that day too. For animals in racks, this means removing it, cleaning the tub with a disinfectant (I use vinegar water, chlorhexidine spray), drying, then replacing it. For animals in a tub or enclosure with loose substrate, this means removing the whole soiled area, if it touches the tub, using disinfectant, then replacing with fresh bedding.

    Animals have to be checked daily and cleaning done as quickly as possible. The reason behind this is that animals will sit on soiled or wet substrate and if that happens, can develop scale rot and have to be taken to the vet.
    Artgecko made some excellent points that many of didn’t address. My snake room is situated so that I go through that room daily to access normal living areas. It’s automatic to glance in the cages as I’m walking past....and you can smell when the larger snakes go. It isn’t uncommon to have at least a cage or two that needs attention every couple of days, plus regular cleaning and changing of water bowls even if the snakes haven’t soiled the cage. Not to mention making sure I go upstairs to check the quarantine tubs for the newest animals away from my main collection only after the needs of my established animals have been addressed.

    In addition to scale rot, soiled cages/tubs can result in bacterial and fungal infections. Not to mention potential respiratory infections due to sub-par conditions.
    Other Snakes:
    Hudson 1988 1.0 Colombian rainbow; Yang 2002 1.0 Corn snake; Merlin 2000 1.0 Solomon Island ground boa; Kett 2015 1.0 Diamond Jungle Jaguar carpet python; Dakota 2014 0.0.1 Children’s python

    Ball pythons:
    Eli 1990 1.0 Normal; Buttercup 2015 1.0 Albino; Artemis 2015 0.1 Dragonfly; Orion 2015 1.0 Banana Pinstripe; Button 2018 1.0 Blue Eyed Lucy; Piper 2018 0.1 Piebald; Belle 2018 0.1 Lemonblast; Sabrina 2017 0.1 Mojave; Selene 2017 0.1 Banana Mojave; Loki 2018 1.0 Pastel Mystic Potion; Cuervo 2018 1.0 Banana Piebald; Claude 2017 1.0 Albino Pastel Spider; Penelope 2016 0.1 Lesser

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  9. #66
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    ...My snake room is situated so that I go through that room daily to access normal living areas. It’s automatic to glance in the cages as I’m walking past....and you can smell when the larger snakes go. It isn’t uncommon to have at least a cage or two that needs attention every couple of days, plus regular cleaning and changing of water bowls even if the snakes haven’t soiled the cage. Not to mention making sure I go upstairs to check the quarantine tubs for the newest animals away from my main collection only after the needs of my established animals have been addressed.

    In addition to scale rot, soiled cages/tubs can result in bacterial and fungal infections. Not to mention potential respiratory infections due to sub-par conditions.
    My snakes have always shared my entire home...every room (except kitchen, bathrooms & laundry) has some snakes in it. I have always done it this way...animals are
    part of my life, not shut away somewhere in a room by themselves. And because they are so spread out, there is less chance of all snakes catching something from each
    other. (there are pros & cons either way, of course) But this way, as with yours, they do get seen on a regular basis. Even with good intentions, it's easier to miss
    things when your snakes are out of sight either in tubs/racks, or in another room.

  10. #67
    BPnet Veteran Dianne's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    My snakes have always shared my entire home...every room (except kitchen, bathrooms & laundry) has some snakes in it. I have always done it this way...animals are
    part of my life, not shut away somewhere in a room by themselves. And because they are so spread out, there is less chance of all snakes catching something from each
    other. (there are pros & cons either way, of course) But this way, as with yours, they do get seen on a regular basis. Even with good intentions, it's easier to miss
    things when your snakes are out of sight either in tubs/racks, or in another room.
    In my previous home, my snakes were in every room except my bedroom. The entire home was easy to heat and was pretty consistent temperature throughout. When I purchased my house, we quickly realized it did not heat or cool consistently (frame house built in 1945 with a heat pump). The room selected for my snake room is between my living room and bedroom and adjacent to the bathroom, so moderate traffic area. It also keeps the most consistent temperatures when closed off from the rest of the house. The living room and bedroom are typically 66-68F in winter, but the snake room generally stays 74-77F. My quarantine room is upstairs and stays in the mid-to-upper 70’s during the late fall through early spring, but mid-to-upper 80’s in summer. So summer temperatures are too high for ambient room temps for a snake room.
    Other Snakes:
    Hudson 1988 1.0 Colombian rainbow; Yang 2002 1.0 Corn snake; Merlin 2000 1.0 Solomon Island ground boa; Kett 2015 1.0 Diamond Jungle Jaguar carpet python; Dakota 2014 0.0.1 Children’s python

    Ball pythons:
    Eli 1990 1.0 Normal; Buttercup 2015 1.0 Albino; Artemis 2015 0.1 Dragonfly; Orion 2015 1.0 Banana Pinstripe; Button 2018 1.0 Blue Eyed Lucy; Piper 2018 0.1 Piebald; Belle 2018 0.1 Lemonblast; Sabrina 2017 0.1 Mojave; Selene 2017 0.1 Banana Mojave; Loki 2018 1.0 Pastel Mystic Potion; Cuervo 2018 1.0 Banana Piebald; Claude 2017 1.0 Albino Pastel Spider; Penelope 2016 0.1 Lesser

  11. #68
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    In my previous home, my snakes were in every room except my bedroom. The entire home was easy to heat and was pretty consistent temperature throughout. When I purchased my house, we quickly realized it did not heat or cool consistently (frame house built in 1945 with a heat pump). The room selected for my snake room is between my living room and bedroom and adjacent to the bathroom, so moderate traffic area. It also keeps the most consistent temperatures when closed off from the rest of the house. The living room and bedroom are typically 66-68F in winter, but the snake room generally stays 74-77F. My quarantine room is upstairs and stays in the mid-to-upper 70’s during the late fall through early spring, but mid-to-upper 80’s in summer. So summer temperatures are too high for ambient room temps for a snake room.
    That makes sense...& all houses are different. For some reason, builders never figure on "snake/reptile addicts" buying them...

  12. #69
    BPnet Veteran Dianne's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    That makes sense...& all houses are different. For some reason, builders never figure on "snake/reptile addicts" buying them...
    I’m pretty sure in 1945 no-one thought any sane person would willingly have a snake in the house. LOL
    Other Snakes:
    Hudson 1988 1.0 Colombian rainbow; Yang 2002 1.0 Corn snake; Merlin 2000 1.0 Solomon Island ground boa; Kett 2015 1.0 Diamond Jungle Jaguar carpet python; Dakota 2014 0.0.1 Children’s python

    Ball pythons:
    Eli 1990 1.0 Normal; Buttercup 2015 1.0 Albino; Artemis 2015 0.1 Dragonfly; Orion 2015 1.0 Banana Pinstripe; Button 2018 1.0 Blue Eyed Lucy; Piper 2018 0.1 Piebald; Belle 2018 0.1 Lemonblast; Sabrina 2017 0.1 Mojave; Selene 2017 0.1 Banana Mojave; Loki 2018 1.0 Pastel Mystic Potion; Cuervo 2018 1.0 Banana Piebald; Claude 2017 1.0 Albino Pastel Spider; Penelope 2016 0.1 Lesser

  13. #70
    BPnet Senior Member MR Snakes's Avatar
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    Re: new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    I’m pretty sure in 1945 no-one thought any sane person would willingly have a snake in the house. LOL
    That is what my wife is asking now!

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