new interest in snakes, trying to learn.

[redshepherd]

Sorry to make a second comment in a row, but honestly I think it would be a good idea for the OP to do thorough research to own a SPECIFIC species first- before making a thread asking about breeding and breeding businesses. Different species can have vastly different husbandry requirements and a lot of information to learn. Pick one you enjoy!

It would be most efficient if you take the time to at least research some basic husbandry practices about snakes first. Then you can also make a generally educated decisions, without everyone correcting you about basic snake husbandry that you should be researching on your own before even owning one snake.

Unfortunately the "complete terrarium packs" are never what you really need in snake care and frankly are overpriced, paying for equipment that you end up NOT needing, and missing important equipment that you DO need. There is no "terrarium pack", because different species have different needs.

Look into the ball python caresheet and husbandry section on this forum first if your goal is own a ball python. Or look into other caresheets if you choose a different species.

[Jellybeans]

Since you're just starting out why don't you just try keeping a snake or two for a while and see if it's really what you even want to do jumping into breeding is not smart

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

[MissterDog]

Sorry to make a second comment in a row, but honestly I think it would be a good idea for the OP to do thorough research to own a SPECIFIC species first- before making a thread asking about breeding and breeding businesses. Different species can have vastly different husbandry requirements and a lot of information to learn. Pick one you enjoy!

It would be most efficient if you take the time to at least research some basic husbandry practices about snakes first. Then you can also make a generally educated decisions, without everyone correcting you about basic snake husbandry that you should be researching on your own before even owning one snake.

Unfortunately the "complete terrarium packs" are never what you really need in snake care and frankly are overpriced, paying for equipment that you end up NOT needing, and missing important equipment that you DO need. There is no "terrarium pack", because different species have different needs.

Look into the ball python caresheet and husbandry section on this forum first if your goal is own a ball python. Or look into other caresheets if you choose a different species.

VERY sound advice right here. OP I think this is the best approach you can take. Slow and steady wins the race after all

[Dianne]

lets talk numbers. most of the balls i have seen are 300-600. lets call it $1000 for a pair. i've seen videos about complete terrariums for $100. this is assuming i want to do a terrarium and not a plastic tub. bags of 50 feeders are less than $50 and last 6 months so $100 a year. balls lay 4-6 eggs annually. i sell babies for $200-500. my breeders live 20-40 years. how is this a losing situation?

The biggest issue with estimating future prices is that more people begin breeding those $500-$600 morphs and the price drops each year. Two or three years ago I was looking at piebald ball pythons and blue eyed leucistic ball pythons, but couldn’t consider purchasing a $600-$700 animal at that time. I got both last year, the pied for $300 and the BEL for $350. I’ve picked up a total of 8 bp’s in 2018, because I love the species and all the color morphs. I have no real plans to breed, but even if I did, I’m a minimum of 3 years for most of the ones I would consider breeding to be of age and size.

As someone else pointed out, you usually can’t breed females year after year and expect them to remain healthy. Egg production is taxing on the females and it takes time to recover. Also, you would not necessarily get viable clutches for the entire 20-40 year life span. Snakes, like other animals, have peak reproductive years. After those peak years have passed, the egg count would go down. As a side note, females won’t always accept just any male put in with them, sometimes nothing at all happens and you lose a season. They are living creatures with minds and instincts of their own, completely independent of our plans.

As for enclosures, yes, they can be set up relatively inexpensively for ball pythons - tub and rack systems - but a decent thermostat is going to be $200-$400 depending on how many units you run off of it. You would need the heat tape, tubs, rack, and thermostat for the breeding group just to start. Skimping on the thermostats can cause failures resulting in burns, which require veterinary treatment, or overheating which can impact egg production in females and lower sperm count in males.

Assuming breeding is successful, you now need an incubator (heat, thermostat, egg containers) and then a rack system for the offspring (heat, thermostat, small tubs, rack). You’ll need food for all of the hatchlings, and you’ll need to get them feeding before sale. Most reputable breeders sell with a minimum of 5 successful, consecutive feedings. If you haven’t already built a reputation, you may have those hatchlings for months...or longer. Here in Richmond VA, a table at one of the local reptile expos runs $75-$100 for a one day, 6 hour show.

I’m not trying to dissuade you, but just point out some of what you should be considering. I’ve not bred ball pythons, but have bred corn snakes, common redtail boas, and Cuban boas. It was strictly a hobby, and let me purchase or trade for other animals I wanted at that time. I had a good reputation because I was already active in the reptile community, producing healthy, quality animals was just icing on the cake . Even so, you always take some animals home at the end of the day...and those need to be quarantined from the rest of your established collection because you have potentially exposed them to mites and/or disease from other less scrupulous vendors.

[Bogertophis]

I'll second everything Dianne just wrote ^ ^ ^ it's the perfect reality check.

If you're just trying to make money but you don't really LOVE what you're doing, it's a lot of WORK that's gonna get old fast.

You don't want to invest all the time, money & effort only to "burn out". And most people breeding snakes are lucky to break even.

[Cheesenugget]

I want to second what Dianne said. I love piebalds and BELs. I want one of each very badly for over a year now. However, like many who is watch the market, I am waiting for the prices to drop a little bit more before making my purchase. Morphs like bananas used to be the hype. And although they are still in demand for pet keepers, their prices have been dropping. I was able to get mine for $180 a year ago.

Of course, these pretty morphs will always demand a decent price (aka you won't get them for less than a few hundred bucks), but the prices are dropping due to every aspiring breeder (like you) wanting to get into the game, could not command a higher price and end up selling them for $50-80 less than your competitor. I know piebalds and BELs won't drop down to $200 or less (that would be great) but I also do notice that I can get a male Piebald for $350 vs $450 a year ago. The ones who pay top dollars are your fellow breeders and they know what they want, what they are looking for and who they want to trade or buy from (reputation matters). The rest of us noobs(lol) or simple snake keepers may pay a lot for a snake too but not many is okay with spending more than $500 on a snake. They just want a pet for their kid or something pretty to look at in their tank.

Another example is the Palmetto corn. That used to fetch crazy prices when it first came out. They have been bred so excessively now that last I saw, you can pick a baby up for about $300 (Less if it is bug eyed).

[artgecko]

Cage maintanance is something that I haven't seen many people comment about.. you, OP, said something in a post several pages ago (something like "clean the cage once a month or not at all if you do bioactive". I wanted to address this because it is a big mis conception for those not keeping.

When maintaning animals, especially growing, young, or breeding animals that are fed weekly, you can expect them to urinate at least once a week, with solid waste correlating with feedings, so feed 1x a week, expect 1x a week urination and poop. This can sometimes take longer (for solid waste) but usually urination is frequent. I check my racks and cages daily and spot clean (remove soiled areas of the bedding) or remove all the bedding (for rack with paper). Sometimes, a snake will urinate on Monday (and I'll clean it) then that same snake will deficate on Tuesday, necessitating a complete cage clean that day too. For animals in racks, this means removing it, cleaning the tub with a disinfectant (I use vinegar water, chlorhexidine spray), drying, then replacing it. For animals in a tub or enclosure with loose substrate, this means removing the whole soiled area, if it touches the tub, using disinfectant, then replacing with fresh bedding.

Animals have to be checked daily and cleaning done as quickly as possible. The reason behind this is that animals will sit on soiled or wet substrate and if that happens, can develop scale rot and have to be taken to the vet.

I have some terrariums for gecko species which are bioactive. Bioactive enclosures really only work if you either have very small inhabitants with very small waste (compared to enclosure size) or if you are basically still spot-cleaning and removing urates and solid waste. This is becaue, even with a CUC and "good" bacteria in the soil used, there is note enough room for the waste of such a large animal to be processed..It could take months for a CUC to completely consume the solid waste a BP produces and within that time, the animal might be slithering over it, sitting on it, bacteria will be growing on it, etc. all things that can lead to an infection.

For my geckos, I remove solid waste if I see it, I clean the glass and plant leaves, and I stir the substrate.

I agree with others' comments about housing. If you don't want to do tubs or racks, you need to look at pvc cages like animal plastics. These insulate and hold humidity much better and are stackable. If doing arboreal species you will need radient heat panels (RHP) if doing more terrestrial species, you will need heat tape. A quality thermostat like a herpstat is also a must for safety reasons.

[Skyrivers]

Have you considered breeding and selling mice? Ball pythons have a few hundred mutant genes. I don't know how many mice have, but I am sure it is over a thousand. Mice average 8 babies per litter, mature at in a couple of months, and can have a litter per month. One male can handle 3 females easily. A family takes up less space than basic housing for a ball python. Build up a little business supplying mice to all the snake owners in town.

If you go to a two-day reptile swap meet, look around in back and talk to people. Vendors must rent a table, get food and housing, transport themselves to and from the meet, etc. This all costs money, time, and emotional stress. This was not for me.

Living things have a way of dying at the worst possible time. Kiss that investment goodbye.

When people talk about making a killing breeding snakes, I remember the motto of the Mystery Writers of America. Crime does not pay...enough!

Red and yellow are juvenile coloration in green tree pythons. By a year old, the snakes are turning green, the adult coloration. I've kept green tree pythons. They are gorgeous but NOT friendly. Every breeder wants "something that is nub friendly, has a unique look, and commands more than a few bucks to own one." That was the amelanistic corn snake back in the 1970s. The most money I ever made selling a snake was from raising an amel corn snake from baby to adult back then and then selling him as a proven breeder. And I think I lost money on the deal just from the food he consumed during that three year period.

So lets review what you have taken from this thread so far?

[JRLongton]

lets talk numbers. most of the balls i have seen are 300-600. ... balls lay 4-6 eggs annually. i sell babies for $200-500

You should do more study on how genetics work.

My wife was starting to talk about breeding corn snakes. We like them and already have this gorgeous female sunkissed-diffused het charcoal corn named Cirice. She's a total peach and I simply adore her. She cost $300 a few years ago and I'd buy her again without hesitation. So, the wife saw palmetto corn snakes for sale, saw that they go for $600 -$1000, and started to see dollar signs just like you said you are. She though that if we got a male palmetto we could breed him to our female and produce litters of some crazy morph worth hundreds of dollars each. A quick primer on corn snake genetics sobered her up, fast.

The fact of the matter is, due to how corn snake genetics work, none of the progeny from such a pairing would be any morph at all. They would all be visually normal, though they would be triple hets. In other words, our $300-$600 snakes would only produce offspring worth less than $100 each and that is if we could sell them. After all, selling snakes isn't like selling kittens or puppies!

BP genetics are totally different but my point stands. You are grossly underestimating how common it is to produce $500 snakes. Granted, $200 snakes are going to be easier, but that brings me to my final point. That snake that costs $200 today, in three to four years (when your theoretical female is ready to produce) that same snake will only cost $100 or so. Why? Because there are lots of people producing BPS for a relatively small market, and the rare morph of today is common tomorrow. The first albino BPs were bizarre anomalies and sold for thousands, now you can get a female albino at any expo for less than $200.

Again, the only reason to breed is because you love snakes and breeding is a cost effective method of getting more.

Allow me to echo everyone else on this forum. Look to get one female for now and see how it goes. But please do lots of research first!

[Skyrivers]

kittens or puppies!

Awe.... I like my cuddly scaly friends. LOL.