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View Poll Results: Breeding ethics? For the non-breeder owner.

Voters
23. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dont breed.

    15 65.22%
  • Breed and don't allow to hatch.

    0 0%
  • Breed and let nature take its course? Maternal incubation

    3 13.04%
  • Breed and incubate?

    2 8.70%
  • Other

    3 13.04%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #1
    Registered User Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    So I have read different theories on it. Some say the males are driven to get to the females. Some say the females are driven to get with the males. Truth is most likely a combination of both. The males get the testosterone boost and the females putting off pheromones. Either way the drive to continue the blood line is an ornate designed of every species on the planet.

    Not that I am planning on breeding, the question is, "At what point is nature stronger than our desire to keep them from it?" and "The ethics of breeding VS not breeding?". Boy am I asking some real though questions today. Lets make it easier to answer those questions.

    1) Is it ethical to not allow a species to breed? Need VS desire.

    2) Would it be more ethical to allow a species to breed and not hatch the eggs over not allowing to breed at all? To hatch or not to hatch or not to breed at all?

    3) Is breeding a Need or just a Desire? Some species are more driven than others.

    4) Other theory?

    Please offer discussion to support your choice.
    Last edited by Skyrivers; 01-08-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User pretends2bnormal's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    Not a breeder or even super experienced, but my $0.02 to start.

    I think Need vs Desire depends on species or even individuals. Kind of like a sliding scale.

    Corns/BPs seem like mostly Desire. No negative side effects if not bred aside from BP fasting which is typically harmless.

    Things like Retics seem closer to Need, at least on some individuals. Seems to be especially true of ones who have smell-access to the opposite gender. This based on many posts seen of retics tearing up faces, etc. during breeding season.

    I think for any animal that is Need, breeding should be allowed if feasible (proper age/size for it, adequate space, etc.).

    As for eggs, if it is something the owner can and wants to handle the responsibility of (housing, feeding, and rehoming), then good. But anyone who would fail at any of those resulting in low quality of life for the offspring , especially considering retic clutch sizes and size of the animal (not everyone is cut out to own), then I don't see a big issue with freezing the clutch as soon as it is discovered. I think it would be fuzzy to wait or partially incubate.

    This gets much more complicated for live-bearers, of course... babies are born before you could do anything, unlike eggs that are undeveloped when you would freeze them.

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    Last edited by pretends2bnormal; 01-08-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Lord Sorril's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    1) Ethics heavily depend upon your viewpoint: If you consider life a gift, then giving the gift of life is wonderful. If you consider living a form of suffering then breeding anything is ethically dubious.

    2) Given the strain that reproduction places upon an organism: it is not efficient for survival to utilize resources if it could not gain any genetic advantage. Nature is cruel.

    3) Mating is neither a need or desire in most species. It is an instinct devoid of any purpose other than to maintain genetic propagation.

    4) There are exceptions to every rule.
    *.* TNTC

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  6. #4
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    Honestly, I would never breed any animal just for fun. (their fun)

    Like its been said, its an instinct. And just because there is this instinct (or even desire) doesn't mean they get to breed in the wild. Far from it. In most species there will be fights and the winner gets the right to breed.

    So should we set up fighting pits for retics or any species ? To make it more natural and realistic ? Even though most animals do not get to breed, they live their lives just fine.

    When it comes to retics, I do not believe they only push for breeding reasons. I do not own retics, but have listened, learned, researched and read a lot about them. Some (quite many) just push. Either just sometimes, or a lot. To the point of causing themselves pretty bad damage.

    I have a feeling the reason for that may actually lay in their nature. In the wild, they travel many miles. They aren't sedentary snakes, or like the ones that lay in wait for prey to walk by. Everything I've read about them says they are a snake that is on the go.

    Even a room sized enclosure is not going to allow that animal to travel for miles, but it may distract them enough to wear them out exploring the large enclosure. Perhaps the instinct to wander is bigger in some then in others ?

    Either way, I would not breed retics just to keep them "happy". Esp. with the males often turning quite combative during breeding season, I wouldn't want to risk getting sliced up while moving the male to and from the female. They have a instinct to breed and they have a instinct to fight for females.

    There is also the issue of putting the females body through the strain of reproduction, both sexes prolonged feeding fasts which will be longer then if you just let them get through the season without breeding.
    Last edited by zina10; 01-08-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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  8. #5
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    For one of the male giant snakes that I wanted to keep strictly as a pet I would have a talk with my vet about having him neutered (the snake not the vet). Yes I realize that it's invasive surgery and it won't be cheap, BUT these snakes can easily live for decades and that cost would be defrayed over the snake's life by not having to deal with cases of "smash face", never mind the potential that always exists for a male in the mood to decide that you are merely an obstacle to be removed in his quest for a female. IMO it's no different than having a male horse that isn't worth breeding gelded.

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  10. #6
    Registered User 67temp's Avatar
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    If you hadn't already planned and prepared prior to breeding then I wouldn't do it just because the animal want to. Breeding takes toll on the animal. Seems like you might be considering breeding since rainbow if off of food right now. Even if being bred, a lot of species stay off food till the eggs are layed or even till after they hatch. There are also the health risks of being egg bound or prolapsed oviducts. Retics are a species that get protective of their eggs, so you will have to deal with an angry snake. There is no harm in having an animal as just a pet and never breeding them. It's just a yearly behavioral cycle and will be there whether or not the animal is bred.
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  12. #7
    BPnet Lifer zina10's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
    For one of the male giant snakes that I wanted to keep strictly as a pet I would have a talk with my vet about having him neutered (the snake not the vet). Yes I realize that it's invasive surgery and it won't be cheap, BUT these snakes can easily live for decades and that cost would be defrayed over the snake's life by not having to deal with cases of "smash face", never mind the potential that always exists for a male in the mood to decide that you are merely an obstacle to be removed in his quest for a female. IMO it's no different than having a male horse that isn't worth breeding gelded.
    Interesting !!!!

    Ethically, I would have NO problem gelding a snake. But has it ever been done? I'm sure it "can" be done. Smaller animals get gelded. For many reasons. Since retics can get quite combative it may not be a bad idea at all. I've seen the wounds they leave, slicing like razors through tendons, veins and even arteries.

    Off to google
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  13. #8
    Registered User Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by 67temp View Post
    If you hadn't already planned and prepared prior to breeding then I wouldn't do it just because the animal want to. Breeding takes toll on the animal. Seems like you might be considering breeding since rainbow if off of food right now. Even if being bred, a lot of species stay off food till the eggs are layed or even till after they hatch. There are also the health risks of being egg bound or prolapsed oviducts. Retics are a species that get protective of their eggs, so you will have to deal with an angry snake. There is no harm in having an animal as just a pet and never breeding them. It's just a yearly behavioral cycle and will be there whether or not the animal is bred.
    As stated above I have not intention of breeding. No where ready for that or looking for that. Was simply an ethics question. Not even species specific.

  14. #9
    Registered User Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
    For one of the male giant snakes that I wanted to keep strictly as a pet I would have a talk with my vet about having him neutered (the snake not the vet). Yes I realize that it's invasive surgery and it won't be cheap, BUT these snakes can easily live for decades and that cost would be defrayed over the snake's life by not having to deal with cases of "smash face", never mind the potential that always exists for a male in the mood to decide that you are merely an obstacle to be removed in his quest for a female. IMO it's no different than having a male horse that isn't worth breeding gelded.
    Another great point. Keep them coming.

  15. #10
    Registered User Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Ethics question in relationship to breeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by zina10 View Post
    Interesting !!!!

    Ethically, I would have NO problem gelding a snake. But has it ever been done? I'm sure it "can" be done. Smaller animals get gelded. For many reasons. Since retics can get quite combative it may not be a bad idea at all. I've seen the wounds they leave, slicing like razors through tendons, veins and even arteries.

    Off to google
    Getting people to think and exploring new ideas is why I ask these questions. Will do research after work also. Let me know what you come up with.

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