Backstory and Breeding Progress/Questions

[Weremey59]

Hello,

I've posted on this forum once before however I'm still very new at this. I can be very direct with the way I ask things ( which im trying to work on haha) and can come off a little abrasive. Please bare with me. I started this post to ask questions that I am unable to find or I find conflicting, as I am attempting to breed my BP's right now. This is my first year and believe me I have spent an epic amount of time online researching and preparing myself for what is about to come. I own five ball pythons

Edgar F pastel x cinnamon (pewter) 1600gr
Allan M albino × champagne x pinstripe 1200gr PB
Poe M pastel 1000gr
Queen F spider 700gr (not being bred this year, too small)
Misty/ F Mystic Potion 1800gr. PB

They all live in my home made rack, dont worry I'm a carpenter/framer, and I have alot of spare tubs I want to fill. Here's what I know for sure from my collection:

1) I definitely want to go down the bumblebee/killerbee/ calico killer bee route. I think they are stunning animals and want to make my own little beautiful pieces of art. That being said I also want to play around with the champagne and pinstripe lines.

2) I can almost guarantee the sex's as when I have mated males to females I have always witnessed a lock. I know this isn't definite until the females have laid eggs but I think it's a pretty good sign.

3) All of my snakes have morphs I want to work with. I wanted to start my collection with all single gene animals and work my way to what I wanted (time is not a concern for me) however Allan and Misty dropped into my lap. I couldn't turn down the opportunity as they are amazing animals and are both proven breeders.

4) I understand all the hard work, sleep less nights and stress it will probably bring however it's something i really want to do. I would like to sell off the ones I do not want to continue breeding with however if I cannot find a good home for them, I have the space and means to keep everything I breed. I know full well what I'm getting myself into haha

With that said, this is what I have done so far. I have made up a full spread sheet to document everything that happens. I record sheds, feeding, when I cleaned there tubs last, notes and who I have bred to who. I moved them to my basement where the fireplace is because it is thermostatically controlled. The trade off is it takes alot of the humidity out of the air but I just keep on top of it by paying them more visits (misting). I started introducing the males around the beginning of November but did not see much activity for the first two weeks. The only snakes I am attempting to breed right now is Misty and Edgar. I was trying to keep it Allan×Misty and Poe×Edgar however I had to take Allan out because he stopped eating for two months. I know it's normal for males to do this but he was looking skinny, I weighed him and he had lost some weight (went from 1200gr to 1050gr in that time). He got back feeding and is now back into the rotation but I bred Poe×Misty twice. I introduce the males to the females every 3 weeks and leave them for 36-48 hrs depending on if I see a lock or not.

With that all being said and before anyone asks it (it seems to be the norm on this forum haha) the temps, bin sizes, humidity are all within appropriate ranges and are all healthy animals. They are all feeding well and if they do go off feed I am able to get them back on no problem.

Here are my questions. I will number them to make it easier for people to answer them (if you don't want to no pressure haha)

1) How often do BP's lock/breed and a clutch not be yielded? I ask this as in the female doesnt lay any eggs what so ever. I'm not talking about slugs. If they do or dont why?

2) This is a tough one as this is very local. Everywhere I look says to find someone to show you or assist you in sexing snakes. Whether that's probing or popping the younglings. Where the crap do I find someone in Calgary to help with something like that? Its asking alot and even when I go to reptile expos, how do you even ask that. Not to mention although the snake community is very nice, it would still be a complete stranger in my house. Is there someplace I can take them?

3) Incubators, I've seen everything under the sun used as an incubator but what would you suggest? Here are the three options I currently have. I have an old fridge that I could easily turn into one but the thing is quite large. I could build my own insulated unit to whatever dimensions I wanted, it would be quite tank like Haha. Lastly I could go the cooler route that only fits 2-3 clutches. Should I go big or go home? Should I start small and work my way up?

4) a) Incubation tubs. I have seen alot of different substrate or lack there of used to keep the humidity up in the incubation tubs. The option I am leaning towards is the eggs crate suspended in water route. Meaning not using any substrate matter, just water and an egg crate/rack to suspend the eggs above the water. A breeder Ive talked to here does this and has alot of positive things to say about it. Vermiculite has alot of conflicting opinions interms of too high or too low of humidity. Some love it, some thing its a pain. What do you do think/suggest?

b) Incubation temperatures need to be between 88-90 INSIDE or OUTSIDE the incubation tub? How do you measure that? Obviously the incubator would be thermostatically controlled with my Herbstat 4 but my concern is inside the tub. My thought was to squeeze a thermometer probe wire between the lid and the container of the incubation tub and run a thermometer probe inside to monitor it. Thoughts?

c) How do you measure humidity inside the incubation tub?

5) Do you change the incubation tub sizes to whatever fits the clutch or do you always use 7qt tubs and just separate the eggs from one another so they all fit? Is there such a thing as to big of a tub?

6) I forgot this one and meant to put it at the beginning, sorry Haha. As I stated above I bred Allan×Misty and Poe xEdgar however I had to removed Allan from breeding for some time and substituted him for Poe. If both males successfully locked to the same female, is there a chance of have a clutch with both males gene's being present in the clutches? (Eg, Misty's clutch could be champ, pin, pastel, mystic, Mojave het Albino?) I hope that made sense.

I know that was alot but thank you in advance for any information you guys have. I plan on using this page to keep anyone who is interested informed on how things are moving along and field anymore questions I may have/can't find on the internet. Please comment if you see something I am doing wrong in regards to anything stated above, I am completly open to anyone's opinion.

Thanks again,

Grant

[Danger noodles]

I haven’t breed any yet and probably never will but good luck man! There are a lot of good people on this site and I’m sure I will get the answers u need!

[RXLReptiles]

So I'm not the most experienced breeder here, and this year will be my first year back into breeding after quite a hiatus, but I'll answer what I can as best I can.

So in order:

1. I'm not sure there is an actual statistic on this, but in my experience it's not as common as it may seem when people talk about it online. A factor to consider is if she's a proven breeder or if it'll be her first clutch. I've had a few females over the years not go after locking all season, but they were first time breeders and it wasn't super common in my collection.

The key is that they are in control of IF they go. So if everything is to her liking (husbandry) and she's ready both in size and age to breed, then she should produce. .....If she wants to....

Not the best answer, but if she's slamming food and locking and everything else is on point, you should be good.

2. I have 2 different options for you depending on whether you just want it done or if you want to learn to do it.

A. If you have a reptile store or reptile vet nearby they can sex them for you. This route may cost you a little money.

B. Talk to a breeder at a show, but instead of having them come over, have them teach you at the show, or if you get to know them, their facility. A breeder at a show can show you how they do it with a snake that's there and you can take the knowledge and apply it to your collection.

3. This will depend on how far you want to take breeding. If you will only have a few clutches a year, and it's just for the hobby aspect of it, a cooler incubator is fine. If you aren't sure if you want to expand breeding later again a cooler isn't a bad idea.

If you're considering the cooler method I'd recommend a video on Youtube by Reach Out Reptiles that explains his cooler incubator, it's simple, it works, and worst case scenario it can be taken apart and still used as a cooler later.

Now opposing that you can build a fridge incubator or your own incubator if you think you are going to be doing a lot of breeding in the future. But I'd still recommend the above video for your first year, you can always go big and retire the cooler to being just a cooler later.

4a. Personally I'm a fan of perlite, as are a lot of other people on here, but that is completely up to you. The video I referenced in answer 3 will go over incubation substrate.

4b. Inside the incubation tub, you can use a thermometer probe in the tub, usually a small hole can be drilled and the probe inserted that way. Again the video I referenced in answer 3 will go over incubation tub sensors as well.

4c. This isn't as big a deal if using the cooler incubator referenced in answer 3. Obviously, I'm a fan of that particular incubator style and it's what I'm going to be using this season, mostly as it is simple and near impossible to mess up.

5. The incubation tub can change in size, most people I've spoken to use certain tubs because of how they fit in their incubator and how well a clutch of eggs fit in them. I don't want to say that you can't go too big on tubs, but as long as the eggs aren't touching the walls or ceiling/lid when the tub is closed you don't really need to go any bigger than that.

6. Honestly on this one I have no idea, I'd assume it's possible for a female to lay a mixed sire clutch, but I've never had anyone confirm or deny this one.

Usually if I've switched to a backup male his genetics are close to the original chosen male as I'm going for a specific combo of genes. Alternatively if I pull a male because he's dropping weight/not eating and I don't have a similar male I either hope she goes with what she's got or I put him back into rotation after he's eaten and is at a better weight.

From what it sounds like you've done your research and are well on your way to taking the leap into breeding. I hope that I helped clear up some things for you and didn't make it worse. If you need any clarification just let me know.

-Bear

[Weremey59]

Thank you for the awesome advice. Its answered alot for me.

[Weremey59]

That incubator is super interesting. I've never seen anything like that before. Obviously he just runs it off a herpstat or something?

[Weremey59]

Would you just put the thermostat probe in the water?

[Lord Sorril]

6) If both males successfully locked to the same female, is there a chance of have a clutch with both males gene's being present in the clutches?

Yes, each egg will be sired from one specific male. If you had 8 eggs: 4 could possibly be from one male, and 4 from the other.

My default is to breed 2 males : 1 female - and about 10% are split clutches. I see a pattern in my collection of larger males overriding smaller males so: if I want a particular males genetic offspring I will make sure that his male competition is smaller than him.

The real confusion begins when you have retained sperm from this years matings and next year you have a split clutch. Do keep notes.

[Weremey59]

That makes perfect sense and I have read that you can have sperm live in females for up to 2 years. With that being said why is it necessary to mate the two as a minimum of one ever month and a half? Just to make sure they actually locked and sperm actually made it into the female?

Random question, why would it be advantageous biologically to have sperm live that long?

Fyi that incubator is awesome and definitely the route um going. I just need to figure out the sizing and temperature first. I like that guys videos, easy to follow.

[paulh]

Cool project!

A lot of this is general snake information. That I can give as I never bred ball pythons.

I can come over as abrasive, too. I'll bear with your if you'll bear with me.

1. The only lock I ever saw in my ball pythons did not result in any eggs. So it happens, but I can't give statistics. Properly cycling the snakes (as I did not) should minimize that sort of thing.
2. YouTube video? Basically, use a blunt probe and be gentle.
3. IMO, start small. You choice may be different.
4. a) No opinion.
4. b) Inside the tub. Check with a high school science teacher about where to get scientific thermometers with plus or minus 1 degree Celcius accuracy. Photo developing thermometers are also good.
4. c) By whether or not the eggs are dimpling.
5. Sure there are tubs that are too big. I use whatever size that works.
6. Each egg is sired by one male. But two or more males can sire a clutch. This can happen with human fraternal twins, too

Good luck!

[mdb730]

1) How often do BP's lock/breed and a clutch not be yielded? I ask this as in the female doesnt lay any eggs what so ever. I'm not talking about slugs. If they do or dont why?

This is hard to to answer because sometimes no matter what you do they just don't go. I've had females lay I never saw a lock to females not lay that I saw plenty of good locks. It is all about timing, I do most of my pairings basis the weather.

2) This is a tough one as this is very local. Everywhere I look says to find someone to show you or assist you in sexing snakes. Whether that's probing or popping the younglings. Where the crap do I find someone in Calgary to help with something like that? Its asking alot and even when I go to reptile expos, how do you even ask that. Not to mention although the snake community is very nice, it would still be a complete stranger in my house. Is there someplace I can take them?

I learned at an expo, strike up a conversation with a breeder during the slow hours or watch plenty of youtube videos

3) Incubators, I've seen everything under the sun used as an incubator but what would you suggest? Here are the three options I currently have. I have an old fridge that I could easily turn into one but the thing is quite large. I could build my own insulated unit to whatever dimensions I wanted, it would be quite tank like Haha. Lastly I could go the cooler route that only fits 2-3 clutches. Should I go big or go home? Should I start small and work my way up?

Always start out small, my first clutches were incubated in hova bator incubators and then I switched to DIY cooler for more clutches. I'm now considering re purposing a beverage cooler.

4) a) Incubation tubs. I have seen alot of different substrate or lack there of used to keep the humidity up in the incubation tubs. The option I am leaning towards is the eggs crate suspended in water route. Meaning not using any substrate matter, just water and an egg crate/rack to suspend the eggs above the water. A breeder Ive talked to here does this and has alot of positive things to say about it. Vermiculite has alot of conflicting opinions interms of too high or too low of humidity. Some love it, some thing its a pain. What do you do think/suggest?

I've done substrate less incubation with just a cooler, water nd an egg crate as well as vermiculite/tub. I now like setting up a tub with vermiculite, water and an egg crate with the eggs above the moist vermiculite because it was easier to keep the eggs dryer that way for me.

b) Incubation temperatures need to be between 88-90 INSIDE or OUTSIDE the incubation tub? How do you measure that? Obviously the incubator would be thermostatically controlled with my Herbstat 4 but my concern is inside the tub. My thought was to squeeze a thermometer probe wire between the lid and the container of the incubation tub and run a thermometer probe inside to monitor it. Thoughts?

I know some people who incubate at 83, the eggs will hatch but it will take a little longer. I just control the incubator itself, I don't worry about the tubs. I cut when the first one peeps.

c) How do you measure humidity inside the incubation tub?

I don't measure humidity, I set it and forget it with drenched vermiculite and the eggs sitting on an eggcrate on top of the substrate.

5) Do you change the incubation tub sizes to whatever fits the clutch or do you always use 7qt tubs and just separate the eggs from one another so they all fit? Is there such a thing as to big of a tub?

I incubate in 6 qt or 15 qrt depending on clutch size, I never separate eggs until one peeps and it's time to cut.

6) I forgot this one and meant to put it at the beginning, sorry Haha. As I stated above I bred Allan×Misty and Poe xEdgar however I had to removed Allan from breeding for some time and substituted him for Poe. If both males successfully locked to the same female, is there a chance of have a clutch with both males gene's being present in the clutches? (Eg, Misty's clutch could be champ, pin, pastel, mystic, Mojave het Albino?) I hope that made sense.

Duel sired cluthes are possible but I'm very particular about what i'm breeding so I usually don't use two males unless they are exactly the same genes.

This is the way I do it, everyone has their own method, I've seen everything from incubating at high 70s to just turning a walk in closet into an incubator with a space heater or even not providing hot spots for their snakes but just keeping the room at 82.