Power feeding? Does anyone just feed their BP just to feed them?

[Ronniex2]

Not really interested for breeding purposes far as weights andso forth, just more so of a, “if they are stillinterested” purpose. I would want my females to be at the sized needed for when we areready, but that is no time soon…
I have had Spell for close to 2 years now, and she has gonefrom 276gs when I first got her, to her current weight which is around 1700gs. InitiallyI just wanted a big BEL female BP that’s it… so I fed her almost every 5 days,now I’m on a 7 day feed plan and as you can see she is doing well.
Now, after my new female just ate 2 rats last night, due toHollow’s refusal, along with readings and other threads... I was thinking about bumping her up. She was not interested inthe refused meal, so I offered to the Mojave, and she ate. I would say she isolder than Spell, but it would be a guess off her previous owner’s time withher (2<+- friend ,1<+ from father), but this had me wondering about themboth. What do you think of offering a second rat as an option for them movingforward? Spell was interested, but I think my timing was off… how do YOU offera second meal if you do?
Or should I focus on the one whom is power eating for a possiblereason? She ate almost immediately once she got wind of another meal. She issmall tho, around 1300gs (they all move so much i just ball park the grams) and I am not interested in Spider Mojaves or vis versa, (66%/50%/poss het clowns) lol; she would be with my GHI but he is not ready yet. Should I encourage her to grow follicles, orkeep it to the pet standard till my male is ready?
Also do you thinkHollow (my male) –WHO EATS ALL THE TIME!!! Refused due to the new snake’s presence (her possibilitybeing a more mature {3<+years} female)? He will not be paired with either ofmy females, but I’d hate for him to be thinking he has a chance LMFAO!! That’s worsethan watching porn, least you can see that lol…
Anyways, anyone experienced with this topic or have any valuablesuggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks again

[Ronniex2]

Updated pic of them both


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[Skyrivers]

Healthy feeding schedule is just that. Power feeding can be unhealthy. No need to over feed. My BPs are a year old now and eating weekly still. Well up until 4 weeks ago. Hunger strike for them both. They are not missing anything. The female is 1k grams and male is 900. Both healthy animals in the 2 ft range. I visited the local breeder that has the brother of one of my BPs and he is much smaller. Picky eater. I am sure some have larger by a year. Mine are healthy slender long noodles.

[Coluber42]

Feeding just because they’ll eat it is not necessarily healthy.

Remember that for any animal, the drive for food is not calibrated just for how many calories they need. It’s also calibrated for how much time and effort and motivation it requires for them to get that in the wild, and if possible get a bit more than they need to hold them over the lean times. Ever wonder why humans crave high-calorie foods like bacon and ice cream? Because getting enough calories was a lot of work for our ancestors up until very few generations ago, and in that context rich foods are pretty high value.

But that becomes a problem for any animal living in a situation where food is suddenly easy and abundant - dogs with indulgent owners, snakes that aren’t picky eaters, humans who live next door to ice cream shops, etc.

Getting the snake to put on weight as fast as it’s willing to slurp down meals is not healthy in the long term and shortens its lifespan. Weekly feeding sounds like too much for an adult - it doesn’t even let their system settle back down in between - and a double-sized meal (assuming each of those two rats would be a decent meal by itself) is even more so.

Even if you’re thinking of breeding, there’s a limit to how much weight gain (and how quickly) is appropriate. Breeding success for any animal (especially over the longer term) depends on overall health, and overfeeding is not healthy. Just because they’re giving you those puppydog eyes and telling you they’re hungry doesn’t mean they actually need more food.

[Ronniex2]

Some people have also said this is could just be due to “their need”/”desire” to feed, greedy snakes who want to be fat lol…(diff strokes for diff snakes?) or it could be their desire to mate, and pack on the weight…like puberty almost

Not that I plan on adopting this habit, but I read it… saw it... was like my girl looked like she would take a 2^nd meal even after her 1^st meal… so I offered, and she ate it… so I ask, as I just saw the vids, and read in some other places, that the females will look for / accept a 2^nd meal at feedings during mating season.

So deff not every 5 days … but on the regular days offered, my question is not “should I”, more so “is this something ppl do?” if so when? And how soon after the 1^st do you offer the 2^nd? If you’re familiar with this practice ... In one of Bryazak’s vids he mentioned offering 2^nd meal “if they take it”... This guy has rats for years lol... so he can afford missed attempts for his animals in his projects, but for us smaller collectors (/breeders), how often is your BPs looking for 2nds? Is it sex thing far as maturity or will males power-eat as well?

[Coluber42]

I've never heard of people regularly offering more just because their snakes look like they'll take it. I know people do offer refused prey to other animals so it doesn't go to waste, but personally if I did give a second rat to a snake for that reason I'd skip the next feeding at the very least. And sometimes people feed multiple small prey items instead of one larger one, either because they have them on hand or the snake prefers that or for the variety.

But it sounds like you're talking about feeding a single appropriately-sized meal and then saying "hey buddy, still hungry? Have another", aka feeding the snake twice what you think it needs to be eating. I certainly hope that isn't a common or accepted practice.

Lots of snakes take awhile to settle out of the "food mood" once they get into it, so that may be why they still look like they want another one even after downing the first.

Honestly, at every 7 days you're still feeding way more often than your snakes need at the age and size you describe.

[Bogertophis]

I'll just add that one reason that some snakes may want or even need more food is if they are sharing their meals with intestinal parasites. From the photo
you posted above your snakes do not appear to be obese [yet!]. Have you ever taken fresh stool samples from them to your vet to check? I would, & maybe
that will give you an answer as to why they want so much more to eat. If they actually have issues, you'll be saving both their lives AND some money on your
future snake-food expense.

[Sonny1318]

I probably should start a new thread, I understand what your saying. I agree that over feeding is not a good thing at all. I’ve seen it with boas and burns all the time when I was younger. Since a I really got back in the hobby I’ve kept nothing but males. Like so many have said what works for some might not be ideal for others. After around two plus years, I noticed that’s when the serious fasts started happening, not just a couple weeks here or there. I have never been an over feeder. But after a while I noticed the pattern and embraced it. My older boys literally shut down around early January eating only once or twice for roughly four to five months (again depending on their age). Then they shed, start eating a bit more, and by September they’re taking every five to six days. By late October an occasional double (I feed jumbo mice). Sure they’ll miss for a shed, but I’m sure they’d eat a lot more if offered. Even when a I believe they are eating optimal, they will sometimes stay in feed mode sometimes till the next day it seems. IMO mine are growing well, at around almost four years plus, they are hovering around 1600 grams. (Yeah I probably shoulda started a different thread) No Ronnnie, I don’t believe you should push it, if they are at a good solid weight. Sit back, keep up what you’re presently doing and feel good you got a hang for it. Just curious how old is your male? And again I don’t know if I helped or confused the situation. Peace Bro

[dakski]

My two cents.

Feed on an appropriate feeding schedule for a non-breeder animal.

That's an appropriate sized meal every 7 days. You can do this for life, however, many BP's, as they get older and bigger, will start to refuse meals offered frequently (aside from their common winter fasts).

My BP, Shayna, began refusing weekly feedings frequently at about 1,100G. I listened to her and began offering food every other week instead. During the spring and summer she eats (mostly) ever meal offered and she's sitting pretty and healthy at about 1,800G.

I have not heard of major health issues, at least early on, with BP's fed more and more frequently, but I am also not sure how many studies have been done to see how many "power fed" individuals make it to 25+ years old.

Jeff Ronne did a study in Boa's (BCI's in particular), who have very slow metabolisms and need to be slow grown. A Boa should take 4-6 years to reach "full size," probably closer to the latter, especially if a female. Comparatively, a BP can get there in 3-4 years, give or take, comfortably, and with a regular feeding schedule (Shayna got to her adult weight at about 4 years). The study Jeff Ronne did was to feed Boas weekly, as much as they could swallow. I believe he used 20 Boas (maybe ten males and ten females) and not one of them lived past 5 years old. Obesity in any snake can cause premature death. I am sure you've heard of people who overfed their Boas and Pythons and few make it past 10-15 years, as opposed to 20-30 years. However, the Boas he power fed and did not make it past 5 years old, were all autopsied. They found that although the animals grew quickly and were larger in terms of muscle and fat and overall size, their organs could not keep up. They had the body of a 5-6 year old Boa when they died, but the organs of a 2-4 year old Boa of much smaller size.

Boas need to fed much less than once a week as soon as they are on small rats or larger (intervals go 2 weeks, 3 weeks on mediums, and 4 weeks+ on larger prey).

Now, how does this relate to a BP?

I think it does. Yes, Boas clearly have slower metabolisms and are slower growers than BP's, however, in nature, they have no opportunity to power feed. How many fat snakes have you seen in the wild?

We, as keepers, have the opportunity to provide an optimal environment for our snakes and help them live long and happy lives. However, it's also our obligation to understand their needs and what they would have in nature and balance that with what we are capable of doing. Regular food is good, but too much food can be bad.

Fat BP's have health issues and I wouldn't be surprised if power fed individuals don't live as long and have premature health issues because of the power feeding. I haven't found a similar study with BP's and they also will often refuse meals they don't need. However, if you have a BP that will eat large meals like clockwork, it is your job as a keeper to limit the food intake.

Below is the feeding chart for BP's. I like it for size of prey, but not for duration. I believe adults can easily eat every other week as opposed to every week.

[Dianne]

The majority of my snakes get 1 or 2 appropriately sized prey item(s) every 2 weeks.

Duncan - Colombian redtail boa (26 years old) = 1 xl rat
Eli - Normal BP (28 years old) = 1 med rat
Hudson - Colombian rainbow boa (30 years old) = 1 med rat
Merlin - Solomon Island ground boa (18 years old) = 1 adult mouse
Yin & Yang - Corn snake pair (16 years old) = 2 adult mice each
Buttercup - Albino BP (3 years old) = 2-3 adult mice because he refuses rats
Artemis - Dragonfly BP (3 years old, new addition 9/2/18) = offered 1 sm rat (has not fed for me yet)

These 3 are this year’s hatchlings and are offered prey weekly.

Piper - Pied BP (7/2018 hatchling) = 1-2 f/t hoppers
Belle - Lemonblast BP (7/2018 hatchling) = 1-2 live fuzzies
Button - BEL BP (May/June 2018 hatchling) = 1 f/t adult mouse

Almost everyone has good body mass, not skinny by any means, but not particularly chunky either. The only exception is Belle, who is trimmer than I’d like because she’s a picky eater and refused food for the first month I had her. She’s finally eating weekly, though not the size prey item I’d prefer. Once she eats a few more times, I’m going to try rat pinks. They are a large jump in size from the fuzzies she is accepting, but they are the next size live prey my shop carries. Occasionally somebody will get an extra refused rodent from one of the other snakes, but not often. I have a few snakes that would easily eat enough to get significantly overweight. If I notice them getting a little too thick, I bump the feedings back by 1 week.