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  1. #41
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Poor Yafe...so many injections...but he's in great hands, so he wouldn't dare stay sick. (I hope!) Your prompt attention taking him to the vet was

    I know & agree with your vet, nothing you did caused this, & also that it's impossible to prove that he was already ill when he was shipped, but certainly the journey
    (without heat) didn't help. I hope you some get satisfaction from the seller, the 2nd communication sounded much better than the first, but it remains to be seen.

    I'd be really concerned about the flailing, jerky movements he does too...I hope that's self-limiting with his infection but only time will tell. We're all pulling for Yafe-
    he didn't deserve this & neither did you.

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  3. #42
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    I think you are right in not having any regrets. Money is just money, especially when we have made the commitment to a living animal. I bought a $1000 dollar emerald tree boa from an expo, only to have it die within 1 week (I will forever blame myself for this one as I did not do enough for it.) I commend you on your immediate rise to action. Your vet has given you all the information you need and you sound VERY committed to his recovery. Do not doubt yourself one bit.

    I have noticed your name and your effort put into each post, and I thank you for your contributions here. I am a newish member, and am forever grateful for all the information shared here. This is site is mildly representative of how the hobby should be. However, I do not think we should be discouraging any type of commentary or discussion unless it's obviously inappropriate.

    I wish your family the best of luck with Yafe's recovery, and will continue to follow along.
    Too Many...

    That's what my wife says



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  5. #43
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PiperPython View Post
    I think you are right in not having any regrets. Money is just money, especially when we have made the commitment to a living animal. I bought a $1000 dollar emerald tree boa from an expo, only to have it die within 1 week (I will forever blame myself for this one as I did not do enough for it.) I commend you on your immediate rise to action. Your vet has given you all the information you need and you sound VERY committed to his recovery. Do not doubt yourself one bit.

    I have noticed your name and your effort put into each post, and I thank you for your contributions here. I am a newish member, and am forever grateful for all the information shared here. This is site is mildly representative of how the hobby should be. However, I do not think we should be discouraging any type of commentary or discussion unless it's obviously inappropriate.

    I wish your family the best of luck with Yafe's recovery, and will continue to follow along.
    Thank you so much for all the kind words. I am glad my contributions have been meaningful to you. I also really appreciate the well wishes. Yafe does as well.

    To be clear on my previous post, I agree. I am not upset or anything like that with ANY contributions made to this thread. I think they all serve a purpose.

    My point was merely that it can be easy to second guess anyone's decisions, but imagine yourself in that person's shoes as well. I may be in Finance, but I am huge believer in empathy and trying to understand how someone is feeling in a situation, not necessarily how you feel, or would feel in that situation.

    Again, thank you PiperPython, and everyone who has/will contribute to this thread. It is ALL very much appreciated.
    Last edited by dakski; 10-06-2018 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #44
    BPnet Veteran 67temp's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    I haven't gotten to read the whole thread yet but I hope Yafe makes a quick recovery. Welcome to the world of carpets! You picked out a nice bright looking snake.
    Silent Hill Reptiles and Rodents
    https://www.silenthillreptiles.com/

    1.4 Carpet pythons
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    1.1 of SD reticulated pythons, cali kings,black house snakes,trans-pecos,northern pines
    1.2 Japanese rat, 1.3 natrix n. natrix
    6.1 Balls, 1.0 orange Halloween ATB, 1.0 bci

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  8. #45
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    Poor Yafe...so many injections...but he's in great hands, so he wouldn't dare stay sick. (I hope!) Your prompt attention taking him to the vet was

    I know & agree with your vet, nothing you did caused this, & also that it's impossible to prove that he was already ill when he was shipped, but certainly the journey
    (without heat) didn't help. I hope you some get satisfaction from the seller, the 2nd communication sounded much better than the first, but it remains to be seen.

    I'd be really concerned about the flailing, jerky movements he does too...I hope that's self-limiting with his infection but only time will tell. We're all pulling for Yafe-
    he didn't deserve this & neither did you.
    Bogertophis,

    Thank you for the kind words.

    I too am concerned about the movements. I emailed both the breeder and the vet for clarification and their opinions. I am also hoping it's limited to the infection as he did not (appear) to exhibit the behavior, certainly to the level it is now, on the evening we unpacked him.

    I also emailed the breeder last night and asked for a compromise.

    I said either he should submit a claim to fedex for the insurance on the package since it was delayed, and pay for the vet. Or, I offered to eat the cost of the emergency visit ($180) and the cost of the overnight stay ($52), but have him pay the remaining $341 for diagnosis and treatment. I would also "eat" the time spent and the angst and having to give shots over a month, etc. However, I said if meds need to change, he doesn't get better, and/or neurological type symptoms get worse or don't disappear with the infection, we will be talking.

    I should point out that the hospital quoted $800-$1,000 with the latter being a worse case scenario, but the total came to $573 instead. That's a huge relief and it's nice to know the hospital is honest.

    I thought that was a fair compromise. I also pointed out that when I spoke to his US Rep, who I talked to and purchased Yafe from, he said to go to the vet and keep him in the loop. I told him I was going to the ER Vet as well. Very inconsistent message.

    Further, I told him the doctor said the delay, but ALSO, the lack of a heat pack, contributed to this. I therefore felt my "compromise" offer to him was exceptionally fair.

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  10. #46
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quick Update:

    First, Yafe spent the entire day curled up above the top lock for his doors (pictures below). There is a little ledge there he wedged himself onto and between that and squeezing in between it and the ceiling of the tank, and wrapping his tail around the lock mechanism, I guess he was comfortable. It's 80F in that spot, and I'd like him on the 90F branch, or the 90F UTH, but that's his decision. No noticeable bubbles today, but I am leaving him completely alone until Monday night when he needs another injection.

    I don't think the antibiotics would have kicked in yet, and the vet said I probably wouldn't notice any improvement until the 2nd or 3rd injection, or after, but it's not impossible it happens sooner. If this is the correct medicine (90% chance), he could start improving quickly. That's my hope, but I am not getting too excited yet. I am glad he had the energy to climb up there today.

    Secondly, I got an email back from the breeder. He said he thought my offer/compromise was very reasonable, but wants to discuss Monday (he's traveling this weekend) and work out what happens if he needs more/different medicine, this first bout of antibiotics doesn't fix this, etc. He also said he would discuss the neurological symptoms I mentioned with me. I had mentioned in the email that prompted this response, that he might want to wait until Yafe is done with treatment and we can make a good assessment of him, before reimbursing me.

    I also emailed the vet about the neurological symptoms. She is back Monday, so I should hear from both on Monday. I am pretty confident I can cure the RI. So far so good between me and Katie RE injections and I know my husbandry is, and will continue to be, dialed in.

    My concern, as mentioned, is the odd movements. If this stress brought out a bigger issue, I am not sure what to do. However, I don't want to get ahead of myself, and just hoping the odd movements were caused by him being uncomfortable and/or temporary neurological issues brought on by stress.

    Either way, the breeder appreciated my "olive branch" and said he will work with me. He brought up discussing "what ifs" in this email, while I had merely touched on it in the previous email. I think we are getting on the same page, and he also realizes, and has admitted, that Yafe should not have been sent without a heat pack.

    It is clear that neither of us want Yafe to suffer and he's stopped second guessing me. I asked him to look at it from my perspective and realize I am not a newbie. Something was very wrong here. I also have other animals in the house to worry about (although Yafe is on strict quarantine). I acted as quickly and in the best way I could. Again, I have zero regrets.

    I'll update more when I know more, probably Monday evening after his injection, and I've heard from the vet and the breeder again.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

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  12. #47
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I think we tend to see more 'bubbles' when a snake is handled as opposed to sitting quietly on their own, but I HOPE he's already improving.

    I think your suggested compromise was very fair too, though I was thinking the same thing, that it's best to wait a little while to see where all this is going-
    it's really too soon to know for sure, but at least the latest communication from the seller is a good sign. Especially admitting they blew it on the heat pack.

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  14. #48
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    I think we tend to see more 'bubbles' when a snake is handled as opposed to sitting quietly on their own, but I HOPE he's already improving.

    I think your suggested compromise was very fair too, though I was thinking the same thing, that it's best to wait a little while to see where all this is going-
    it's really too soon to know for sure, but at least the latest communication from the seller is a good sign. Especially admitting they blew it on the heat pack.
    Thanks Bogertophis.

    I totally understand RE bubbles. I also 100% agree things are moving in the right direction with the seller and that there needs to room for the "what ifs." However, I think we both understand that.

    However, Yafe had his head flat most of the day. Two days ago his neck was extended upward against the glass most of the afternoon. Again, I could be reading into things. However, I am hoping things are already improving. If not, I thank him for at least making me feel a little better today because he doesn't seem as uncomfortable.

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  16. #49
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    ...
    However, Yafe had his head flat most of the day. Two days ago his neck was extended upward against the glass most of the afternoon. Again, I could be reading into things. However, I am hoping things are already improving. If not, I thank him for at least making me feel a little better today because he doesn't seem as uncomfortable.
    I think you're reading that right. I doubt that he's had any acting classes...

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  18. #50
    BPnet Lifer Sauzo's Avatar
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    I had Vicky my boa puke up water on me after i picked her up after she drank a bunch of water years ago lol. Not a fun experience haha.

    Anyways, most breeders will not pay for vet expenses. That is rather standard. Sounds like this breeder is going to work with you so that is a plus but i would not expect any huge compensation. The main reason is once the snake leaves the breeder's hand, he has no control over it anymore so you cant lay sole blame to him. And FedEx and UPS as we all know, dont give a squat about the packages be it live or otherwise.

    As for no heat pack, i have had lots of reptiles shipped to me with and without heat packs. It mostly boils down to you and the breeder getting in touch via phone or text and checking the weather forecast for your area and his on the days of shipment. The problem is overheating a reptile will kill it or damage it much faster than being too cool for a day or two. And this is especially true of baby snakes who can heat up very quickly especially in a little 7x7x7 box. When i got Alex, he was held over for two days in Indiana. The breeder and I talked during the whole process from start to finish and when we both compared weather forecasts and temps, we felt a heat pack was a good idea but he placed a piece of styrofoam between the pack and the snake so it would diffuse the heat so the snake wouldnt overheat.

    As for the RI, like mentioned, if it was bubbling at day two, i tend to think that the snake already had something going on especially if he was stargazing on day two.

    Not sure who the breeder was but with so many in the 'cookie jar' with from what it sounds like 2 people at least on emails, I would be leary. I deal with small time breeders who generally will take better care of their animals and are much easier to deal with as far as getting responses and decisions go. There is no 'chain of command'. It's you directly dealing with the breeder. Like my little red no GTP, I got him from Justin Wilbanks who is a recreational breeder that just loves GTPs. He isnt in it for the money so his focus is the animals themselves and he can follow and check up on every animal he ships and follows up. He asks me for photos of Alex and still talks to me and actually wants to buy Alex back if he turns out like dad lol.

    Anyways, good luck with the snake and it should go ok.


    Oh and the breeder did have good advice for early RI symptoms. Usually you can bump up the temps and humidity for a tropical snake and it will help their immune system kick into overdrive to fight the RI. Same thing with meds, be sure to bump the temps up a few degrees so it speeds up the snakes metabolism to get the medicine coursing through him. But in your case, with the bubbles and it sounding like advanced RI, a vet is a must.
    Last edited by Sauzo; 10-07-2018 at 04:07 PM.
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