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  1. #21
    BPnet Lifer EL-Ziggy's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    I'm so sorry to hear this D. I hope it's just a minor issue. Wishing y'all well and please keep us posted.
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  3. #22
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Quick update:

    Yafe’s symptoms appear to be getting worse. He keeps lifting his head and is clearly uncomfortable and having difficulty breathing.

    We are at the Emergency Small Animal Clinic at Tufts University. 1 1/4 hours from our house in CT.

    Yafe is in the ER with a reptile vet. It’s a sterile environment so we are not allowed back. Katie came with me.

    I believe this needed to be addressed immediately.

    I will update as I know more.

    Very concerned but also optimistic; he’s getting seen now and Katie and I will do whatever it takes to get him back on track.

    Thank you for all the support and for the kind thoughts.

    I will update ASAP.

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  5. #23
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry to hear this, hope he gets well quickly...scary that he got so sick so quickly!

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    I hope this means he is getting ALL the "drama" out of the way early, so the rest of his life with you & Katie is healthy & peaceful...

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  9. #25
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    I just got back from the ER Vet at Tufts. It's 2:30AM here in CT, USA. We left at 8PM and got to the vet (there was traffic and construction) at 9:20PM. We left the vet after 1AM.

    Yafe almost definitely has an respiratory infection; there is little doubt. It's really bad and the vet I saw tonight believes it's been there, but absolutely could have gotten worse with shipping.

    Unfortunately for Yafe, he has to have a quick lung flush (I forgot the name of the procedure and it's been a long day and a long week) and culture tomorrow morning to determine if it's bacterial or fungal. Not a fun experience for him.

    He is staying overnight in a sterile environment and a special reptile cage with temps dialed in to 90F hot side and 78F cool side. It's probably not as luxurious as his digs here, but he doesn't have to travel back home tonight in the car and back again tomorrow and back here, etc. They can also do the flush first thing and hopefully know quickly which it is and what the treatment needs to be.

    Either way, he needs me and Katie to give him shots for a while to get better. The duration of the shots and what the medicine will be will be determined after the culture.

    I am so livid. I feel so horrible for Yafe.

    First, his introduction to his forever home is a long shipment in a box (thank G-D I spent 7 hours on the phone with fedex and was able to pick him up Tuesday night at the airport and didn't wait to the next morning - can you imagine how bad it might be now - if he made it?) and then weeks of injections. Poor guy. I hope I don't lose his trust; he's so sweet. Even in clear discomfort, if not worse, he's a total sweetheart. I have also heard that once a snake has an RI, they are more susceptible the rest of their lives. Is this true? I would hate to have to deal with this again over the next 20-25 years.

    Secondly, as far as I am concerned (I will know more definitively tomorrow), he was (likely) either weak or sick when he was shipped. The shipping fiasco did not help, but I am doubtful this came on in 2 days this bad (as is the vet), and definitely not because of anything I did. I feel the breeder potentially put my other pets at risk (luckily I am following strict quarantine protocol) and definitely put Yafe at risk.

    Finally, in addition to the inconvenience of giving him treatment, the estimate for the lung flush and treatment, plus tonight's visit, is for $800-$1,000. I plan to address this with the breeder, but I am not sure how to "make" him do the right thing, despite showing symptoms within 24 hours of arrival. I already handed over $750 tonight as a deposit so they will do the test in the morning.

    That's two animals to the emergency vet this week and $1,400 now. Banning, one of five dogs we have, hurt his elbow on Monday night (he's doing better and it was just a sprain).

    Any thoughts on an RI two days after arrival?

    Any thoughts about what I should ask the breeder to do? Obviously, I am not shipping him back, that would kill him. He's here and I have to treat him and he's already my buddy. Any thoughts on culpability?

    Wow, this thread is full of drama now. I started this thread to get rid of all the shipping drama stories from his original thread. Should I start another for healthy Yafe, when he gets healthy that is?

    Any thoughts or just kind words would be appreciated at this point.

    Thank you all for your continued support for me, Katie, and the reptile crew!

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  11. #26
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    I just got a horrible email from the owner of the breeder (while I was writing an email to him explaining what happened at the vet). He seems to be saying it's my fault because I handled him for 5 minutes the day he came to check him over and yesterday when I took him out to remove his feces. He further claims I should be leaving him alone (I guess to sit in his feces and today to drown in his mucus). To be clear the owner of the company (breeding company) is not who I spoke to. They are based in Europe and I was dealing with the US Rep.

    See below (except for XXXXXX out names and the company name, the letter is verbatim) and please let me know if you think I am off base here. I don't think so.

    Good Morning David,

    this is XXXXXX, owner of XXXXXXXX I am jumping in at this point here. First of all, I am very sorry to hear that there seems to be an issue. I have received a few dozen emails so far I guess. I have not read all of them, but as far as I understand the headlines there was a problem with FedEx.
    I will call XXXXXX later [COLOR=var(--themePrimary)]today to discuss your case.
    [/COLOR]

    I would like to say that I am very sorry to hear that you did not contact us earlier when you first thought something was wrong, but only after you´ve got yourself into a what seems to be a stressful situation.
    At this point, I can´t see why you would drive two hours to this vet you are talking about. You have received a snake that was shipped (with FedEx problems?) and now shows signs of an RI you say.

    First thing I would do is check the temperatures in the cage, maybe bump them up a few degrees, and check again next week! Most important: Leave the snake alone.
    Never say never, but in 11 years I am doing this now, I have never had that happen. But ok, they are individuals, things can be different. My impression is that this snake is in constant stress for two or three days now, cause it´s not only the shipment itself, but I also received many pictures of you handling the snake?
    When I receive a reptile, no matter what it is, I will leave it alone for at least one week after a shipment to make sure it calms down and doesn’t get stressed more. I do not handle them at all.


    Again, what I would do: Bump up the temps a bit, leave the snake alone in its cage until next week, don’t touch it. Don´t feed it or anything else. In case you have bedding in your cage, remove it and exchange for paper towel/newspaper. Make sure the humidity is between 50-60%.
    There are two options what’s going to happen:


    A) The snake will be fine again.
    B) The snake is still sick because it´s a bacterial infection, probably caused by Pseudomonas aeruginosa, that it can’t handle itself. You will need antibiotics (Enrofloxacin or Marbofloxacin).

    Waiting another week will have no effect on option B and will give us some time to analyze the situation and understand what’s wrong. What I know for sure is that another four hours in the car won´t help at this point!
    As I understand it´s been awhile since you´ve been to a vet the last time. Sadly, not much progress has been made. So all your vet can do is to take a swab that going to be send to a lab and next week you would hear back, probably only to drive another four hours to pick up the medicine.


    Talking about the finances: You have paid a lot of money for the snake and now it seems to be sick. I completely understand that this must be frustrating, and of course we won’t let you alone in this situation.
    BUT: Whatever you do, it needs to be discussed with me directly. In case we have to talk about a replacement at some point (what I don’t hope) I will only be able to compensate for costs that I have approved.
    So let’s say you go to a vet, miss a day of work and pay for medicine, I will not be able to refund anything mentioned unless I have given my OK to do this. Please be aware of this and follow this closely.
    We don’t want you to pay for something that was not your fault, and we don’t want to pay for things that we have could fixed cheaper.


    It´s most important for me to help you and to help your snake. First steps:
    1. I will call XXXXXX to discuss the whole thing
    2. Please send me pictures of the enclosure and infos about the parameters like temperature (hotspot, regular room temp) and humidity.

    Then we will go from there.

    I am not saying “don’t go to a vet”, I am just saying “go to the vet at the right time” and that is not today in my opinion and experience.
    If you have more questions that you would like to discuss, just let me know and give me your phone number, and I will be able to call you personally.


    Looking forward to hearing back from you soon!



    This was my response:

    It's almost 3AM and I just got back from the emergency vet.


    It's pretty clear he has an RI.


    He's spending the night at the clinic (it's Tufts Universities Vet Clinic) in a sterile tank with a 90F hot spot and a 78F cool spot. His symptoms were worse tonight when I took him out to take him then they were earlier in the day.


    He will have his lungs flushed first things by a doctor who normally does that, as opposed to a resident tonight (also to call a doctor in for tonight to do the procedure was prohibitively expensive), and we will know if it's bacterial or fungal and know what injections to give. Either way, there will be injections. Over what period will be determined by the final diagnosis.


    The estimate for diagnosis and treatment is for $800-$1,000 and I gave a $750 deposit tonight.


    XXXXXX, while writing this, I got your email.



    1. Pictures were taken over a 5 minute or so period on arrival day while checking him over.
    2. I took him out of his enclosure yesterday because he pooped in the tank (quarantine = cleanliness first) and was making popping noises while breathing. I attributed it to stress.
    3. Today, I could hear the noises from his enclosure and saw bubbles of mucus.
    4. Your email is late, as you can see, as the symptoms have escalated and quickly. I had no choice but to take him to the vet. 20 years of keeping reptiles means I am not a newbie and know when something is off. You are welcome to put the blame on me, but I would not recommend it.
    5. Not my first reptile. I have 9 others currently, all but two received via fedex. No other sick animals in years of keeping reptiles (except for animals I lost due to old age). Hence proper quarantine procedures.
    6. Adam told me what temps to have him at. He is in a 21X12X12" acrylic reptile enclosure with humidity kept between 60-70%. His hot side is 88-90F, his cool side is 78-80F and there is a gradient from hot side to cool side.
    7. Are you seriously suggesting I should leave him alone in his tank with proper temps and humidity and let him drown in his own mucus? When was the last time you saw an RI get better on it's own when at the bubbling stage?

    Yesterday I thought, "let him rest and get settled at proper temps, a few pops and wheezes could be stress." Today, with mucus bubbles coming out of his nose, that was not an option.



    You don't want to reimburse me, that's on you. I am not letting an animal suffer, or worse, die, because you want me to wait it out. I don't want a replacement. I wanted a healthy animal from day one as described by Adam.


    For what's worth, he was not shipped with a heat pack. I've never experienced that, but XXXX said it was best. Not sure it was.


    You will be hearing from me.

    Last edited by dakski; 10-05-2018 at 03:34 AM.

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  13. #27
    BPnet Senior Member richardhind1972's Avatar
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    Re: Yafe - Albino Carpet Progression Thread

    Ah mate that is really bad that's all you need that sort of expense and time out to sort it but worth it to get him back on his none feet, (belly) lol
    Fingers crossed all goes well, my big 10yr old boa had an RI about 5yrs ago and never had anything since, Touchwood.
    I had to give him antibiotics for a week but luckily it was oral, even tho he hated me giving it him , he never once nipped me or hissed, I think if there was ever a time that would of been it,
    Good luck and keep us all posted
    Cheers rich

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    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 10-05-2018 at 11:09 AM. Reason: TOS Violation

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  15. #28
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    He was making popping noises and mucus/bubbles are coming out of his nostrils.
    I hate to hear this update an to me based on the fact that mucus is present tells me this snake is not in an early stage but an advanced one of a RI, I would have contacted the breeder/seller and ship the animal back immediately. Hopefully you can still do so and do it now.

    RI can be tricky to treat and expensive, in some animals with weaker immune system they can re-occur again and again, so really starting off with a healthy animal to start with regardless of the species is always a better option because this could be a HUGE gamble.

    After that I will be more than happy to recommend you a GREAT source of Albino Darwins (person I got mine from)

    Best of luck and sorry for the rough start.
    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 10-05-2018 at 01:38 PM.
    Deborah Stewart


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  17. #29
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I have both shipped a few snakes AND had a few shipped to me, and I've never heard of a snake not being shipped with a heat pack...
    (I could see it for short flights & some kinds that need cooler temps perhaps, but not this one!)

    What an awful thing to put the snake AND you through and I so hope he recovers well. I've not heard of snakes getting an RI & then being forever susceptible-
    I believe that would only apply to those who did no lab-work in the first place to make sure they were doing the most medically-effective treatment from the start.
    When it's not adequately treated in the first place, it would tend to 'come back' as it was never really gone.

    The only thing I sort of agree with is not handling a snake that you've just received (even for a few photos which we all love). When I get a new snake, they are
    tucked into a prepared cage & essentially regarded like a newborn- home from the hospital, monitored but nothing else. BUT I do believe he was shipped to you
    sick or with a history of this...perhaps they insured him expecting to make a claim? (ie. not survive the trip) And honestly, I am suspicious of his mellow nature.
    I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if the vet says he has a resistant infection. You received a sick snake.

    I have no crystal ball, this is only my opinion...you did not cause this, and letting him drown in his mucus was not an option.

    This is so disappointing to go from receiving this stunning creature to dealing with his medical emergency, so unfair to you AND Yafe...and lousy that the seller is
    trying to blame you. (you should probably post this on FaunaClassifieds)

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  19. #30
    BPnet Lifer zina10's Avatar
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    Gosh, not a good update at all ..

    I agree with Deborah, the fact that he is already bubbling and having a hard time breathing, he probably had something brewing. Sure, the shipping and stress of a new home and being handled could have made it worse, but if he was healthy to begin with, it shouldn't have come on this fast and this bad !!

    No-one can fault you for going to the Vet right away. With RI's that give the snake trouble breathing (open mouth, mucous, drooling, bubbling) you just don't have time to waste. They do not get better with changing temps, humidity and fooling around with nebulizers. You are already past that option.

    Tufts is a great hospital, just make sure that they do not let the students/residents use your animal to "study". I took my horse to Auburn for colic surgery when she was 18 years old. Also a state of the art place and she got excellent care, but it is a learning hospital. $6500 later, but my mare is still alive today. Always demand that a experienced reptile vet is present AND doing the more complicated procedures.

    As to the situation with the breeder, I'm not sure how much resolution you will get. Or what kind. I don't like when several people are involved (like it seems to be the case) and they go back and forth with one another on everything. It makes it difficult to have good communication when you don't even know who to talk to and they pass the buck between one another. At this point you seem committed to the snake and you are into it for a lot of money. That is commendable, but do take into account what Deborah said. This may very well end up being a ongoing issue. You might get it under control now, but it pops up again as soon as the snake is stressed for some reason. Even handling can bring it on, moving enclosures, etc etc. It may not happen, he may get treatment and stay fine for the rest of his life. But at this point, there are no guarantees.

    I know temperament is important to you. And in part you chose (and like) Yafe because of his nature. Just keep in mind, animals that have illness brewing and are weaker because of it often display a mild temperament. That may very well change once they get better. I'm NOT saying he might possibly turn into a fire breathing dragon once he is better. Far from it. All I'm saying is he may have been so mild because he wasn't feeling well. Even if he does get livelier and possibly a bit more defensive at times, like most younger snakes do, you will easily be able to deal with that, like you have with any of your others. All I'm saying is this, don't base your decisions on his temperament alone. Keep in mind your other snakes, the possibility of spreading something around, and the possibility of this turning into a long-term issue. If you can handle all this and you want to see this through despite all possible scenarios, then follow your heart. He may just end up fine. If you aren't sure you want to take this on with the possibility of a long term issue, then I would look into trying to return the snake. I also understand that this would be very hard to do, with him being so sick and you already attached.

    Not a great situation at all to be in, I understand and I feel terrible for you two !!!

    I wish you and Yafe the best outcome possible.
    Zina

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