Concerns about my new BP - Please help!

[leenbean]

Hello! I am new to this whole thing and have been trying to read as many of these threads as I can. I purchased a male BP at a reptile convention on July 28th. I was told his hatch date was January 22, 2018, so he was 6 months old. I had a cage all ready for him, which I have since learned is much too big (40 gallon). I left him alone to acclimate for a week, and then tried feeding him. I put him in a small plastic tub with a thawed hopper mouse. He ate it after a couple minutes, no problem. Fast forward to the next week, I did the same thing and he ate again, no problem. That was his last meal. I tried again each week for 6 weeks to no avail. I tried different times of day, I tried leaving him in with the mouse for an hour, we didn't handle him 48 or so hours before trying to feed him, I made sure his water was full and fresh, his tank heat and humidity was consistent... So this last attempt to feed him (number 7 I guess), I tried something different. I put the little plastic tub I'd been feeding him in, into his tank on the middle of the temp gradient. I thought this might make him feel more safe, and I could leave it in there for a longer period of time, and inside the tub, the mouse wouldn't be sitting on top of the substrate (I took it out and warmed it with a hair dryer every 3ish hours). Y'all, I thought I broke him. He stared at that damn mouse without moving for 12 HOURS. Finally I took it out to see if it would break him out of his spell. He crawled up in his tree and didn't move for another 12 hours. Thinking I must have completely traumatized him, I covered his cage a little more than halfway with a towel so he couldn't see anyone moving about the house, and have not disturbed him other than to peak in and refresh his water. It took a couple days, but now he is moving about like he used to.

Important notes:
Right after attempt #7, I thought to weigh him on our food scale for the first time. He was only 106 grams. I do not know how much he weighed when I bought him.
To my very unprofessional eye, he seems like a healthy looking snake, just small. He doesn't look triangle shaped, he explores his cage actively, doesn't seem nervous, slithers all around when people hold him, I see him drink water, and he pooped before attempt 7 and two days ago. He has never shed with me, and he doesn't look dull like he is about to shed either.
His cage is a 40 gallon tank with a mesh top. He has 3 hides and plants he likes to go under. He has a big water dish on the cool side, and a small one one the warm side. He has a climbing stick and a climbing tree. His humidity is always around 55. The cool side stays just above 70 and the warm side is just at 90. He used to love his small hide on the warm side but in the last 2 weeks has stopped using it. I found a piece of poop inside it, removed it, and have since deep cleaned, but he still doesn't use it. Now his favorite spot is in the leaves on top of his tree. The tree is on the warm side under the ceramic heating lamp. There is also a heating pad on the warm side. I use coconut fiber substrate.

TL/DR: 8 mo. BP only weighs 106g, hasn't eaten in a month and a half.

[Coluber42]

First off, you're going to have a lot of folks telling you the 40 gallon tank is too big. That is true if it doesn't have sufficient clutter in it. Large areas of open floor space are not good; fake or real foliage, tubes (paper towel rolls are good for small snakes), lots of hides, etc, will all help fill the space. It's completely possible to make a 40 gallon tank work well for a small snake, but you have to provide lots of visual cover and reassuringly solid objects for the snake to move around between. Open floor plans might be nice for humans who like to entertain, but not for baby snakes.
It may also help to wrap cardboad or paper around three sides of the tank so he feels more private. However, IMO you should not take away any of the stuff that's in there now or re-arrange it, just add more stuff if you need to. That's so that even if strange new things get added, the old familiar stuff is still there. It takes them longer than you think to settle into a new environment, and if everything in the environment changes, that's basically a new environment.

Next, your cool side is a bit too cool; it should be more like 80-ish. Snakes need heat to digest, and they often won't eat if they aren't warm enough to digest a meal. The fact that his favorite spot is basically as close to the heat source as he can get makes it sound like the rest of his cage is probably too cool. As the weather changes, you may need an additional heat source or more insulation to keep the rest of the cage warmer. How are you measuring temperatures in other parts of the cage? Even if your thermometer has only one or two probe locations, you can use a temp gun to check surface temperatures in other locations. If the surface inside a hide is 70, it's probably a decent assumption that the ambient temperature there is also 70.
If you're going to cover three sides of the tank for privacy anyway, you might as well do it with insulating foam to help retain heat. You can also put a piece of insulating foam (wrapped in foil preferably, for safety in case it gets too close to the CHE accidentally) over the screen of the tank lid, everywhere except where the CHE is. That will retain heat and also humidity. Depending on how you're measuring humidity and where, it's possible that it's actually quite a bit lower than 55% in some places, especially in the warmer parts of the cage. And if you raise the temperature by insulating the cage, that will lower the % humidity by definition even if nothing else changes. So you might need to add deeper substrate or a larger water bowl to help with humidity too once you get your temperatures a bit higher.

Next, you don't need to move him to feed. That's not helpful or necessary. But one thing you can try - since you have a small bin that you were using to feed anyway, cut a hole in the lid of that bin and put it inside the larger tank and leave it there. Now it's another additional hide with a different kind of entrance. You can even make it into a humid hide by filling it partway with damp coco husk, sphagnum moss, etc.

[leenbean]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have two thermometers (that measure humidity too), one on either side of the cage. I have seen on this site that a lot of people mention a thermostat, so if anyone has recommendations for a good one, I'd love to hear it. Same goes for a temp gun, because I've never heard of those. To create more heat, would you recommend a long light that goes across the top of the cage, or just a second light on the cool side attached to a thermostat? I'm very interesting in the insulating foam. Is that something that would go on the inside walls? As far as humidity, he has a large water dish and a small one, and I mist the cage almost every morning. Is there a more efficient way to raise humidity? As far as feeding him in the cage, I put the mouse in the plastic bin instead of on the floor of the cage because I was afraid he would inadvertently eat substrate along with the mouse. Do I not need to worry about that? I also like your idea about putting the plastic tub in the cage as an extra hide. Should I color the sides of it (it's clear)?

Here is a link to the imgur I attempted to make:
https://imgur.com/a/1jyJGVx

[Coluber42]

Insulation foam can go on the outside, not the inside. It's just thick foam board you can get at any hardware store, and if it's on the outside you can just stick it on with tape or whatever. (No tape on the inside!!!) You can also use styrofoam packaging, foam core, even cardboard will insulate better than glass, which lets heat right through.
If insulating it doesn't do the trick, then you should add a second heat source to boost the temperature on the cool side of the cage. If your substrate isn't very deep, this could be a UTH, or it could be an additional overhead heat source.

Any heat source needs to be on a thermostat. Herpstat is the favorite, but they're expensive; Jumpstart is a cheaper one that will also get the job done. The thermostat is really important, because without it your heat source won't respond to a change in the room temperature. For example, let's say that your room is 65 degrees right now, but when you get home you're cold so you turn on the heat until it's 75 degrees in your room. You've got your heating set up so that the cool side is 80 and the warm side is 90, in a 65 degree room. But when the room heats up and the heat lamp on the cage doesn't change, now your cool side is 90 and your warm side is 100. That's obviously not what you want. A thermostat will dim or turn off that heat source so that the temperature stays where it should even when the room temperature fluctuates.

For humidity, covering most of the screen top will go a long way toward raising it. But if you do that and the humidity is still to low, then you need another source of moisture inside the cage. Misting by hand doesn't do much for more than a short period of time because you're not actually adding that much water, and the little bit you add just evaporates right away. But your substrate can be a good reservoir for moisture, especially if it's on the deeper side. The coco coir stuff it looks like you're using is good for this; if it's a couple inches deep, you can even just pour water into it almost like you're watering a plant. It will spread out and soak in and evaporate up through the surface gradually over the course of a few days. Much easier and more effective than a spray bottle, unless you really like the hand workout.

The most important thing about hides is that the snake should feel like it's wedged in against solid surfaces. Snug-fitting hides are good; those half-log hides are not really that secure, although you can make it more so by partially burying it in substrate or partly filling it with moss, substrate, or wadded-up paper towels. Upside down flower pot saucers or plastic bowls or takeout containers can also make good hides, if you don't want to keep buying new ones as your snake outgrows the ones you have. Your tank doesn't look as empty as some, but some fake foliage or paper towel roll tubes might help your snake feel like it can move around without being seen.

Don't worry about your snake swallowing substrate along with its food. A bit of coco coir won't hurt; snakes in the wild swallow stuff that gets stuck to their prey all the time. And their digestive system is built to handle an entire rodent, bones and all, plus whatever's in the rodent's mouth or stomach. A bit of substrate won't hurt.

[leenbean]

Thank you! I will go about making these changes ASAP. Should I wait to try to feed him again until I've added these things? It's been a little under a week since my last attempt.

[Cheesenugget]

Once you figure out the husbandry issues and all using the tips provided above, and he still won't eat for you, go live. My Dumeril ate his first 2 f/t meals and stopped for 3 weeks until I gave him a live mouse (Dumerils are known to be shy eaters like bp). Gain some weight on him before trying to switch to f/t. 100g at this age seems a little scary low to me but that is just me.

[Ronniex2]

I will say what Craig is about to say and I hope you don’ttake this the wrong way, but GOOGLE is your friend!!!
Faras the temp gun is pretty uniform, just check out the reviews, I forget thebrand but I got my gun off amazon…
Thatthermostat is your snake’s life line tho, so you’d want to get one of the “Vivarium Electronics thermostats” oe "Herpstat", as most members willagree is one of the best out rn but you would not want to go “cheap “ on this pieceof equipment due to its importance to your snakes wellbeing.
With the insulation from the foam, orif you choose foil or some other means to keep humidity up, you said you mistso that’s good, one problem settled...
the light suggestion will be ok ifyou have him on display or some type of stand, but they do not need light (anyform of heat is good heat- right temps of course) a Ceramic Bulb will be bestpending height of your enclosure or if you want (Colored) light at all – I had analmost 24” tank and needed 150w to get bottom of tank up to med - high 80s. Thatshould be regulated too if not already. Pending size of your animal, you maywant to put him in a “shoe box” sized container until he get lil bigger, thereis a thread I will link here helped me with my baby boy when he was being stubborn..
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!
This happens to a lot of new BP owners as they see the snakes online or at theexpos and get one figuring that it is pretty simple to take care of theseanimals. The reality is they are not, and they are demanding, and require acertain amount of investments, research, and experience to avoid issues,

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...n-eating-again
when you run into that hunger strike lol ... this is a good read...

but ifthis is not enough help, scroll down the forum and you will see similar issuesfrom other newer members and maybe the advice given there can be of moreassistance to you. Hopefully he starts to treat you better lol… post some picsof him.. good luck !!

[BallPythonWannaBe]

Clutter is Key Are you still trying to feed him in a seperate tub? If so it may be better to feed him in his tank.

[leenbean]

https://imgur.com/a/1jyJGVx

[Mr. Misha]

That's a cute snek!

Now on to some things that need change:

Hide- Get rid of the log and get him a dark enclosure that he can hide in. I personally get ones from reptilebasics.com because they're plastic, come in different size, easy to clean and cheap! For a 40 gallon, i'd get at least two.

Feeding- Sometimes, just heating up the prey isn't enough. I got 16 inc scissor feeding tongs and "dance" the prey for some of my BPs to actually eat. Otherwise, they just "interested" in the prey but don't eat. BPs react to heat and movement. Also, feed in evenings/night. BPs are nocturnal and respond much better yo food at night.

As people already mentioned, cover 3 sides of the enclosure. It will give your BP more privacy. I'd also with large fake plants so he has places to hide.

Here's a photo of my terrarium with the RB hide some fake plants. It definitely fills up large spaces and gives your BP confidence.