Should you really breed? Are you sure it is a good idea?

[Godzilla78]

In the world of ball pythons there are morphs, hundreds, maybe thousands of morphs and morph combos. So MANY new owners decide they want to get more than one snake, because they like other morphs and want more. That is fine, as long as you can afford the time and money to properly care for them.

Then while shopping for the new morphs they want, they notice some of the prices on these morphs and they think to themselves...."wow, I could just buy some of these and breed em' and MULTIPLY my money investment! Awesome, I am going to breed!!!" Or they think,"I cannot afford this high end combo recessive morph I want, but if I breed cheap snake A to cheap snake B, I could get one of those expensive ones I like!"

So they sit down and type a new forum post, " Hey guys, I have such and such a morph, and I as thinking to pair it to such and such! The genetic calculator says I will get such and such, such and such morph hatchlings!!! Awesome.

However, often they have not thoroughly thought this through, meaning that they haven't considered the large amount of money, time and effort involved. Nor have they considered the business and marketing strategies to sell these hatchlings once they are born!

It seems there are two main reasons that newbies want to breed:

1) They want to "make" a morph they like.
JUST BUY IT! Why take tons of time, buy two parents, go through the work (and money) of reproducing and hatch 6-10 eggs just to get ONE MORPH you like? Then what do you do with the other 5-9 eggs?
You want a pastel piebald? Just buy one! It is more expensive to try to hit the odds with a pastel het pied, and a normal het pied, than it is to just buy one. You have to buy 2 adult snakes, or two hatchlings and raise them to adulthood, and even then the odds suck (⅛ chance of each egg being a pastel pied) and you have to take care of multiple snakes for years, just to get the morph you want.

2) They think it is profitable automatically. When you do serious accounting research on snake breeding, you find that the majority of breeders actually end up with a LOSS. That is right, they LOSE money. Cost of enclosures, thermostats, heating equipment, rodents, substrate, possibly even vet bills...just to hopefully sell some baby snakes (IF they are even in demand morphs, which a LOT of morphs these day are too plentiful and/or do not have the demand.)

See a good article on reptile breeding financial accounting here: http://www.ballpythonbreeder.com/201...on-investment/

[C.Marie]

I can see the mentality behind breed verses drop dead from myocardial infarction from price shoke, but agree my dream morph would a banana clown morph but breeding hets than fingers crossed years later that you would get a visual plus all the new equipment you need so too much a hassle, one day hopefully till then a girl can dream

[tttaylorrr]

this seems more like a rant than providing any guidance, but that's okay! tho i think you missed option #3 that i believe you, i and many others on here fall into:

It seems there are two main reasons that newbies want to breed:

1) They want to "make" a morph they like.

2) They think it is profitable automatically.

or 3) because they have the passion for these animals.

money was never involved in my decision making tbh; it was my heart. any animals i have are animals i wanted; their future potential was not a huge factor (except when hets were involved lol).

future potential gains are not my goal; it's the miracle of seeing a first pip in your first clutch. morphs be damned, i just want my first clutch to all be healthy.

for me, it's the idea of growing your personal hobby into something more for you: pushing your own knowledge and skills and creating new life with your passion! the pursuit of new knowledge and applying it is practically a turn-on for me; to get to try it with something as beautiful as this is incredible.

what sucks is those of us that are going about breeding "the right way" are usually silent and don't openly ask questions; we also usually don't talk about breeding unless we're actually doing it. we keep our heads down, do our research for years, and MIGHT ask questions if we really need help. we are the quiet minority.

and it hurts my heart to see all these people every year, posting how they bought 12 animals and want to be ready to breed by next year. meanwhile when i tell them to hold off, ive been doing this for 5 years and still haven't paired any animals, is somehow an attack on them.

i just really wanted to add my perspective bc i am a n00b in this hobby and i do want to breed, and i want it to be known that my outlook on this part of the hobby is a good one.

[chakup]

^^ I think he left out on purpose and using this as kind of a wake up call to the caught up in the moment future breeders. I do plan on breeding in the future, but a ways out. Before I do I have a finished room in garage that will be setup for racks and have full temperature controls for the room. Part of my desire is, as you said, the joy of it. I've loved reptiles since o was a kid. Part is making morphs I want and part is some possible $$$ reclamation. And I did use all of these desires when picking out my pets.

[Bogertophis]

If I could give Godzilla78's post TWENTY thanks, I would...breeding snakes take time, money, space, HOPEFULLY dedication & skills, oh, and LUCK!

Besides health risks for your pets, you also risk turning something that for now is fun & relaxing into something that is stressful & WORK. Medical and
ethical issues aren't rare either.

Other things to consider that may impact your breeding plans are how the increasing time spent on snakes impacts your partner & family...also consider
the stability of your employment and place you live. What if things change? We cannot plan for everything, but neither should we ignore possible issues.

And...IS THERE TRULY A MARKET FOR ALL THAT YOU'LL PRODUCE? Not only the ones you are intending to produce, but ALL the OTHERS? Please think
about that...

[Godzilla78]

I am not against breeding. Just think ti through first, not just think about it, but sit down and do some analysis of everything involved and the results that will realistically be obtained. Too many "passionate reptile keepers" buy a bunch of animals with intentions to breed, it does't turn out like they thought, and they get burned out and sell their collection. The PASSION, becomes a CHORE.

Just think before you leap.

[tttaylorrr]

^^ I think he left out on purpose and using this as kind of a wake up call to the caught up in the moment future breeders. I do plan on breeding in the future, but a ways out. Before I do I have a finished room in garage that will be setup for racks and have full temperature controls for the room. Part of my desire is, as you said, the joy of it. I've loved reptiles since o was a kid. Part is making morphs I want and part is some possible $$$ reclamation. And I did use all of these desires when picking out my pets.

i see that now. and yeah, i plan to have my own dedicated reptile room before i pair any snakes, which means buying my own place first. "breeders" like us keep our heads down and focus on these goals and DO things to make them real; we dont make post after post hoping somehow it all works out.

I am not against breeding. Just think ti through first, not just think about it, but sit down and do some analysis of everything involved and the results that will realistically be obtained. Too many "passionate reptile keepers" buy a bunch of animals with intentions to breed, it does't turn out like they thought, and they get burned out and sell their collection. The PASSION, becomes a CHORE.

Just think before you leap.

excellently succinct. i think there needs to be more emphasis on actually analyzing your own personal and financial situations when it comes to making the leap: not whether you can keep 17 animals, but whether you can adjust your personal/financial situation at the drop of a hat should something go horribly wrong.

this is a good post, Godzilla. something like this should be posted yearly.

[silverbill]

I can understand why people think it's easy to make money off of snakes compared to other animals. Even low-mid tier ball python hatchlings can easily sell for $200-300 each.

I'm close friends with a cat breeder and she sells kittens at $300-500 and that's before deducting the care costs. That's 2 full months of socialization, training, vet checks, vaccinations, and care packages, as well as the fact that her one male cat needs a whole separate room for himself. I would say it's at least marginally easier and more profitable to breed one pair of ball pythons.

That being said, I'm in no way in it for the money myself. I love my snakes for what they are. I have one breeding plan that's 2 years in the making and I'd be more than happy if the money I got would cover their feeding costs.

[Sunnieskys]

I think this is an excellent post! Excellent! Also followed up by Taylor and you have the perfect posts!

I agree with both of you. I thought about breeding however, if I do get more snakes it will be rescues only. And I would get attached to babies and would have to do home checks on the people that I would give them too lol. So it's a nope to breeding for me. Lol

[Godzilla78]

I think this is an excellent post! Excellent! Also followed up by Taylor and you have the perfect posts!

I agree with both of you. I thought about breeding however, if I do get more snakes it will be rescues only. And I would get attached to babies and would have to do home checks on the people that I would give them too lol. So it's a nope to breeding for me. Lol

Exactly, you analyzed the possible outcomes and made a decision.

This thread was as much aimed at myself as to anyone else considering breeding!!!

Me, I am a business person who happens to have an extreme passion for ball pythons, and it has taken me 3 years, but I am launching a business plan and doing business research, because I want to make a profit, and making a profit in the reptile breeding business is apparently an exception. Does making a profit mean I am greedy pig? No, it means I am well aware of how challenging it is to make money as an entrepreneur in ANY business, and I love the challenge and I love the animals. I have done a lot analysis on investing, marketing, return on investment, depreciation, accounting, genetics, marketing, supply and demand, marketing, costs of doing business (overhead), marketing, and the very REAL possibility that I will lose money or break even and end up with a lot of snakes and snake husbandry work. (which I am prepared for the worst, though I hope for the best.)