Cali King regurgitated

[squatsnstilettos]

Hi folks, my Cali-King (Khyan) is a great eater and never had an issue with feeding. Two weeks ago he opted to not eat. I figured it was because he had just shed and might still be stressed. I waited 2 weeks and last night, gave him his mouse. He was a bit fussy (which is unusual), but ate it just fine. This morning I woke up and he had regurgitated the feeder. This has never happened before.

He is not the cuddly type, so I respect his space and don't handle him. So that can be ruled out. He is on paper towels and I clean up after he soils. There was a temperature drop. It was hot and I did turn on the AC in my bedroom which is where he is. He is in a decent size terranium and has a 150 bulb overtop. He doesn't always hang out at the heat source and again, eating/digesting has never been an issue.


Any thoughts? Tx

[Craiga 01453]

What are your temps?
How long did they drop and for how long?

Are your heat sources regulated by a thermostat?

[squatsnstilettos]

What are your temps?
How long did they drop and for how long?

Are your heat sources regulated by a thermostat?

No, I have a room thermostat. I had the ones that stick to the glass of the terraniums, but it fell off. Need to replace. I fed him, turned on the AC for the night and went to bed. The temp dropped 2-3 degrees. I woke up and the mouse was "back".

I also wonder about the feeders themselves. When I tried to feed him 2 weeks ago, I also fed my python. They both refused to eat, which is very odd. I am going to buy fresh feeders and from a different store.

[Craiga 01453]

I'm not talking about a thermoMETER, I'm asking about a thermoSTAT.
And what are your temps? How are you measuring the temps?

[AbsoluteApril]

temperature issues are the most likely cause for regurgitations, not saying it couldn't be the feeder, but the fact you had also used the AC leads me to believe that's the issue.

Also a 150 watt bulb seems way overkill for a tank? Perhaps under the bulb was too hot so he was on the cool side but because of AC was too cool.

Get a digital temp gun (can usually find for $15 or so on amazon), those stick on analog thermostats are not accurate at all

[Bogertophis]

How old is the snake....how big?....how long have you had him? (how long is "never an issue with feeding"?) Is he a captive-bred (c/b) or wild-caught?

Shedding seldom "stresses" a snake, they're usually hungry after shed. It might possibly be the feeders themselves, but you need to fix other issues to be sure.

What size is his cage? A 150 watt bulb is a massive amount of heat & can over-heat a cage- MUST be regulated!!! BUT much of the heat is wasted going up and
AWAY from the cage rather than INTO it...snakes (especially terrestrial ones like king snakes that don't "bask") need BELLY heat to digest their food. His "ceiling"
may be hot, even dangerously so, but if his cage is tall (what are the dimensions? length...width...height???) then his "floor" where he is may be cold, especially
since heat rises & you ran the A/C in the room. Also, what KIND of cage are we talking about? glass? plastic? wood?

I highly recommend that you immediately install UTH under part of the cage (the size* you need depends on the size of the cage, & the ambient room temperatures
year-round...you likely need to provide more additional heat in winter & UTH should be controlled by thermostat for safety...yours and the snakes!
(*UTH- you never heat the whole floor of cage...usually only about a fourth of the area, but it depends...)

And don't replace that "stick-on" gauge that fell off, they aren't accurate & can be dangerous in several ways...you still need to measure the temps. but accurately.

Many years ago I used to visit a local nature museum where I lived then...they kept snakes & I was just getting into them. I learned from the curator & staff that their
snakes often regurgitated their meals, or refused them out-right, about a third of the time, & they pretty much thought this was "normal". This museum was in
the desert so they ran plenty of A/C (or they'd have had no visitors, lol) and the snake's tanks were heated ONLY by incandescent light bulbs overhead, just on/off,
nothing in-between....gee, NO WONDER they kept barfing their food! The heat from the lights were never in the right place in the first place...cage floors remained
quite chilly since most of the heat rose up & away from them, so it's almost a miracle the snakes had survived as long as the did. (some didn't) I nagged them until
they changed & installed UTH...the elderly curator meant well but she "did things the way they always did" without ever learning more until I came along to share
more modern ways of doing things. Poor snakes (& lizards)! So please, put the heat where your snakes can USE it?

[Bogertophis]

OP, you also brought up more information about the feeders, but it was in another thread (from 2017) & belongs here.

The store needs education: if they buy in bulk & then have to partly thaw feeders to separate them, they may be causing spoilage...
I'd for sure (!) let them know you've been having problems!

It would also be a very good idea to offer smaller feeders next time though...and speaking of "next time", once a snake has regurgitated a
meal, you don't want to feed it again too soon. "Too soon" is your normal feeding intervals...you need to wait at least a week or two longer
before you give any food. It's "possible" that nothing was wrong with the feeder or even his cage temps. (though that remains to be seen?)
but once a snake has up-chucked a meal, they REQUIRE extra time to re-establish their digestive enzymes...without that extra time, they
are very likely to regurgitate the next meal...and this can even be fatal after a few times (from dehydration etc) so it's not a suggestion
you should ignore. Please, let this snake rest for not less than 3-4 weeks now, before you offer any food, and only offer smaller, easier to
digest prey, not his normal size meal, at that time.

[squatsnstilettos]

I'm not talking about a thermoMETER, I'm asking about a thermoSTAT.
And what are your temps? How are you measuring the temps?

Got it. I see them on Exo Terra's site. I will him one. Thanks. At this point my only gauge is the thermometer in my room.

[squatsnstilettos]

temperature issues are the most likely cause for regurgitations, not saying it couldn't be the feeder, but the fact you had also used the AC leads me to believe that's the issue.

Also a 150 watt bulb seems way overkill for a tank? Perhaps under the bulb was too hot so he was on the cool side but because of AC was too cool.

Get a digital temp gun (can usually find for $15 or so on amazon), those stick on analog thermostats are not accurate at all

He is in a 130 gallon so it has a fair depth to it. He has lots of accessories such as vines and branches to climb on, paper towel roll to hide in, and a wooden dome.

[squatsnstilettos]

How old is the snake....how big?....how long have you had him? (how long is "never an issue with feeding"?) Is he a captive-bred (c/b) or wild-caught?

Shedding seldom "stresses" a snake, they're usually hungry after shed. It might possibly be the feeders themselves, but you need to fix other issues to be sure.

What size is his cage? A 150 watt bulb is a massive amount of heat & can over-heat a cage- MUST be regulated!!! BUT much of the heat is wasted going up and
AWAY from the cage rather than INTO it...snakes (especially terrestrial ones like king snakes that don't "bask") need BELLY heat to digest their food. His "ceiling"
may be hot, even dangerously so, but if his cage is tall (what are the dimensions? length...width...height???) then his "floor" where he is may be cold, especially
since heat rises & you ran the A/C in the room. Also, what KIND of cage are we talking about? glass? plastic? wood?

I highly recommend that you immediately install UTH under part of the cage (the size* you need depends on the size of the cage, & the ambient room temperatures
year-round...you likely need to provide more additional heat in winter & UTH should be controlled by thermostat for safety...yours and the snakes!
(*UTH- you never heat the whole floor of cage...usually only about a fourth of the area, but it depends...)

And don't replace that "stick-on" gauge that fell off, they aren't accurate & can be dangerous in several ways...you still need to measure the temps. but accurately.

Many years ago I used to visit a local nature museum where I lived then...they kept snakes & I was just getting into them. I learned from the curator & staff that their
snakes often regurgitated their meals, or refused them out-right, about a third of the time, & they pretty much thought this was "normal". This museum was in
the desert so they ran plenty of A/C (or they'd have had no visitors, lol) and the snake's tanks were heated ONLY by incandescent light bulbs overhead, just on/off,
nothing in-between....gee, NO WONDER they kept barfing their food! The heat from the lights were never in the right place in the first place...cage floors remained
quite chilly since most of the heat rose up & away from them, so it's almost a miracle the snakes had survived as long as the did. (some didn't) I nagged them until
they changed & installed UTH...the elderly curator meant well but she "did things the way they always did" without ever learning more until I came along to share
more modern ways of doing things. Poor snakes (& lizards)! So please, put the heat where your snakes can USE it?

His condo is glass with sliding front doors. 130 gallon. I don't recall the dimensions. Little is known about him. He was dumped on the doorsteps on a local store and was so small we figured he was about a year old, but he could have been underweight. He was very stressed and biting himself, which stopped after he came to live with me. He's always eaten well. I can get him a large UTH especially since his condo is on the floor and winter is coming. I do place 4 layers of paper towels on his floor so he never touches the cold glass. Thank you for your suggestions and for helping the snakes in the museum.