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  1. #11
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    I know of one breeder that has produce several paradox over the years doing the same pairing.
    Deborah Stewart


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  3. #12
    BPnet Veteran LotsaBalls's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    Temp controlled room in the basement which itself doesn’t fluctuate much and in a mini fridge incubator with a Helix DBS-1000. Never saw it fluctuate unless I opened the door. Even still, the odds of something external causing it only in a clutch from her and only on a BEL. I’m not sure if I want to pair the male back to the mom or another BEL complex male to her. I’m thinking the latter and the male paradox to a couple female BEL complex girls. At what point is it proved to be something? Three four five?
    Over 60...

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  5. #13
    BPnet Veteran Ax01's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by LotsaBalls View Post
    Temp controlled room in the basement which itself doesn’t fluctuate much and in a mini fridge incubator with a Helix DBS-1000. Never saw it fluctuate unless I opened the door. Even still, the odds of something external causing it only in a clutch from her and only on a BEL. I’m not sure if I want to pair the male back to the mom or another BEL complex male to her. I’m thinking the latter and the male paradox to a couple female BEL complex girls. At what point is it proved to be something? Three four five?
    i think u have to isolate the gene. if u are correct, u have a two Paradox combo's but what would a single (incomplete) dominant paradox look like. what effects would it have on non-BEL genes? it helps to have a few copies or combos but the single isolated gene is the key. just my thoughts and my thoughts may be completely wrong or ignorant.
    RIP Mamba
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  7. #14
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    As I understand it, a paradox starts as a fertilized double-yolked egg, and the two fuse early in embryonic life. So it is a case of twins that became one snake. From what I have read, double-yolked eggs tend to run in families, but it is not a trait caused by a single Mendelian gene. And double-yolked eggs are more common in species with large eggs, like ball pythons and Burmese pythons.

    I had a bullsnake that produced occassional eggs that I believe were double yolked simply from the size (twice as long and nearly as wide as a normal egg). The babies from those eggs may have been chimeras (with cell lines from each of the two fertilized eggs), but those babies were not paradoxes because they were normals, like both parents. A paradox is a chimera whose cell lines produce different appearances so they can be distinguished.

    A paradox male does not produce eggs, so he may pass on a tendency to produce double-yolked eggs to his female offspring, but that doesn't affect his mate. A paradox female may produce another paradox, if she produces a double-yolked egg. And if the color genetics are right in her and her mate.

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  9. #15
    BPnet Senior Member Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    So how do you explain my Great Dane?
    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    As I understand it, a paradox starts as a fertilized double-yolked egg, and the two fuse early in embryonic life. So it is a case of twins that became one snake. From what I have read, double-yolked eggs tend to run in families, but it is not a trait caused by a single Mendelian gene. And double-yolked eggs are more common in species with large eggs, like ball pythons and Burmese pythons.

    I had a bullsnake that produced occassional eggs that I believe were double yolked simply from the size (twice as long and nearly as wide as a normal egg). The babies from those eggs may have been chimeras (with cell lines from each of the two fertilized eggs), but those babies were not paradoxes because they were normals, like both parents. A paradox is a chimera whose cell lines produce different appearances so they can be distinguished.

    A paradox male does not produce eggs, so he may pass on a tendency to produce double-yolked eggs to his female offspring, but that doesn't affect his mate. A paradox female may produce another paradox, if she produces a double-yolked egg. And if the color genetics are right in her and her mate.
    Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Skyrivers; 09-12-2018 at 08:51 PM.

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  11. #16
    BPnet Veteran LotsaBalls's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    I think that could account for some but in the ones like mine there is white/washing out of color along the spine. A chimera I would think would just have random patches of color from the twin.
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  12. #17
    BPnet Veteran LotsaBalls's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    Since the merle gene has an unusual characteristic called somatic cell mutation, where some cells have reverted to the normal recessive form of the gene, homozygous merle dogs can therefore produce some pigment. So it is common to see some spotting on the heads and rumps of white Great Danes and this is the result of this somatic cell mutation. When this occurs within the middle ear, it can restore some hearing and provide for normal eyesight and eye structure in some white Great Danes. Not all white Great Danes will be noticeably deaf or necessarily have sight issues, but the majority of white Danes will be affected.
    Over 60...

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  14. #18
    BPnet Senior Member Skyrivers's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    I am happy she can hear but she is blind as a bat
    Quote Originally Posted by LotsaBalls View Post
    Since the merle gene has an unusual characteristic called somatic cell mutation, where some cells have reverted to the normal recessive form of the gene, homozygous merle dogs can therefore produce some pigment. So it is common to see some spotting on the heads and rumps of white Great Danes and this is the result of this somatic cell mutation. When this occurs within the middle ear, it can restore some hearing and provide for normal eyesight and eye structure in some white Great Danes. Not all white Great Danes will be noticeably deaf or necessarily have sight issues, but the majority of white Danes will be affected.
    Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

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  16. #19
    Registered User skydnay's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    As I understand it, a paradox starts as a fertilized double-yolked egg, and the two fuse early in embryonic life. So it is a case of twins that became one snake. From what I have read, double-yolked eggs tend to run in families, but it is not a trait caused by a single Mendelian gene. And double-yolked eggs are more common in species with large eggs, like ball pythons and Burmese pythons.

    I had a bullsnake that produced occassional eggs that I believe were double yolked simply from the size (twice as long and nearly as wide as a normal egg). The babies from those eggs may have been chimeras (with cell lines from each of the two fertilized eggs), but those babies were not paradoxes because they were normals, like both parents. A paradox is a chimera whose cell lines produce different appearances so they can be distinguished.

    A paradox male does not produce eggs, so he may pass on a tendency to produce double-yolked eggs to his female offspring, but that doesn't affect his mate. A paradox female may produce another paradox, if she produces a double-yolked egg. And if the color genetics are right in her and her mate.

    Jumping back to this, you're referring to a chimera, where one animal contain, more or less, the mashed together DNA of two animals. So, this begs the question, are chimerism and paradoxing the same thing? If so, then this wouldn't necessarily be something you can breed for.

    However, I'm almost convinced they're not the same. Take a look at these two snakes, both owned by Taylor Nicole Dean:

    This is Gemini, who is a chimera.


    From what I've seen, this is how chimeras tend to appear, with a visible distinction between the 2 sets of genetics.

    On the other hand, this is Frank:


    Frank is more what is expected of a paradox, with splotching and banding of pigment visible.

    I have also noticed and agree that paradoxing seems much more common on morphs that minimize pigmentation, so it appears that these are patches where the pigment actually expresses. Given these, it appears that chimera and paradox are two different expressions. They visually express very differently.

    Still, I'm not sure that either of these can be bred for consistently.
    Ball Pythons!
    1.0 Normal - Echo
    1.0 Spider Enchi Ghost - Whiskey
    0.1 Super Pastel Lesser - Tango
    1.0 Butter Spider Het Hypo - Foxtrot

    Other Snakes!
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    1.0 California Kingsnake - Salazar

    Geckos!
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  18. #20
    BPnet Senior Member tttaylorrr's Avatar
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    Re: Paradox genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax01 View Post
    my friend Taylor has a Super Cinny w/ what i believe is true paradoxing. it's small but it's there towards the tail: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ression-thread
    here's the pics of her paradoxing:




    Last edited by tttaylorrr; 09-13-2018 at 12:58 PM.
    4.4 ball python
    1.0 Albino 0.1 Coral Glow 0.1 Super Cinnamon paradox 1.0 Piebald 0.1 Pastel Enchi Leopard het Piebald 1.0 Coral Glow het Piebald

    1.0 corn snake
    1.0 Hypo

    1.0 crested gecko
    0.1 ????

    0.1 cat
    0.1 Maine Coon mix

    0.1 human ✌︎

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