Pastel x Spider questions

[frankykeno]

Mike and I got talking last night about the future and discussing pastel x spider breeding. Well talk about confusion LOL!

Pastel is co-dominant and Spider is dominant correct? I get the co-dom x co-dom breeding of Pastels but do dom x dom breedings of Spiders produce normals or just all Spiders or what? In other words do Spiders still carry any normal genes that they can be expressed in their offspring?

If you breed a Pastel to a Spider I know you have the remote possibility of a Bumblebee (Pastel Spider) but what else would you get? I tried to do the punnet square on this one but I'm not sure if what I got is correct.


~~Joanna~~

Oh heck just to confuse myself totally I did more research early this morning and read about incomplete dominant??? okay someone hand me a cool cloth and a large drink please LOL

[mlededee]

this is my extremely simplified version:

a pastel has 1 pastel gene and 1 normal gene. a spider has 1 spider gene and 1 normal gene. so pastel x pastel = normal, pastel and/or super pastel. spider x spider = normal and/or spider. pastel x spider = normal, pastel, spider and/or bumblebee.

[kavmon]

bumble bees,spiders,pastels and normals are all possible. don't worry about the incomplete dom thing, genetics aren't exactly textbook in our hobby! lol
everyone just calls them co-dom or recessive. one cool thing if you breed a bumblebee to normal you could get pastel,spider,bumblebee and normals.

supers and bumblebees are awesome! these were the 2 that caught my eye and started the bug! lol i'm a sucker for anything bright yellow.


vaughn

[frankykeno]

Lordy, I have more research to do LOL. Okay I get that a Bumblebee bred back to a Normal could produce normals, pastels and spiders but it can also produce another Bumblebee? So Bumblebees are double co-doms basically (simple I know but this is all so new to me yet). I need to go study the NERD site genetics way more I think LOL.

I didn't realize Spider x Spider can still produce normals. Guess I misunderstood what dominant meant. I thought dominant meant homozygous only but apparently it can be either a homozygous or hetrozygous (and visually there would be no difference) but since it doesn't produce a super form it is dominant in it's current form. Or have I totally mucked that up yet again LOL.


~~Jo~~

[kraniumz]

As far as i know from previous research across the net, Spiders are said to be co-dom, so they come in both hets (spider) and homo (super spider). But both het and homo has no visual differences unlike the Pastel mutation.

If Spiders are indeed con-dom, then technically, if u breed homo x homo, u get all spiders. You may get hets but you cannot tell the difference.

You are right when you said that spider (het) x spider (het) can still produce normals, as that is the case when you breed hets.

[RandyRemington]

The confusion between "dominant" and "homozygous" is common and unfortunate. "Dominant" describes the mutation type, not the individual animal. Homozygous describes the genotype of an individual animal for a specific gene.

Genes generally come in pairs, one from each parent. A homozygous spider would have two spider mutant copies of the gene at the spider locus. Most if not all the spiders seen so far are only heterozygous for the spider gene, they only got the spider mutant copy from one parent and got a normal copy of that gene from the other parent.

A completely dominant mutation type would be defined as one where the homozygous genotype shows the same mutant appearance as the heterozygous genotype. Only one mutant copy of the gene is needed to completely dominate the normal copy and make the animal appear just as fully mutant as a homozygous mutant with two mutant copies.

Since the mutation type applies to the mutant gene and not the animal you see that pastel is still co-dominant regardless of if you are looking at a heterozygous pastel (the regular pastel phenotype) or a homozygous pastel (the super pastel phenotype). It is not correct to mix terminology and say that the super pastel is the dominant form - it's the homozygous form, but the pastel mutation is still the co-dominant type.

I find it easiest to predict the offspring by remembering the parent’s genotypes. Your spider X pastel cross is het spider X het pastel. That way you remember that the offspring each have a 50% chance of getting each mutation. Apparently these two mutations are on two different chromosomes, or at least not very close together if on the same, so the chances are fairly independent. Spider X Pastel should give you eggs each with about 25% chance of being bumblebee and the same for bumblebee X normal.

[HankCobia]

As far as i know from previous research across the net, Spiders are said to be co-dom, so they come in both hets (spider) and homo (super spider). But both het and homo has no visual differences unlike the Pastel mutation.

If Spiders are indeed con-dom, then technically, if u breed homo x homo, u get all spiders. You may get hets but you cannot tell the difference.

You are right when you said that spider (het) x spider (het) can still produce normals, as that is the case when you breed hets.

There is no het for spider you can have het pied het albino het clown and some others but no het spider and if you breed a spider to a spider it should produce all spiders

[Oxylepy]

False. Heterozygous refers to having one gene for a trait. Homozygous is having 2 genes for a trait. Whether that gene is recessive as the ones you brought up, dominant as with spider, or codominant as with pastel. A pastel is a "het", a super pastel is a "hom" (this term doesn't get used often but would be correct based on our short hand).

Now, aside from the lesson in genetics terminology, there is an extremely high likelihood based on the amount of breeding we have done that the hom spider is lethal.

Finally, breeding a spider to a spider will not produce all spiders, statistically you would get 25% normals, 50% spiders, and 25% super spiders, which are lethal, leading to 66% spiders, 33% normals

[JodanOrNoDan]

We make this stuff way more difficult than it needs to be for the simple genetics needed for snake breeding. Offspring have a 50% chance to get any one gene from a parent. It doesn't matter if it is dominant, recessive, or co-dominant. Any odds calculation is based off this simple fact.

[StillBP]

You all realize that this thread is 13 years old right?