Genetic question

[Weremey59]

Hello,

I am just beginning to get into breeding and had some questions on two of my snakes that I can't seem to find anywhere else. I like to think I have a pretty good grasp on genetics however I don't understand the genetics on my mystic potion and my champagne, pinstripe, albino BP. Now I say ahead of time that even if I wasn't planning on breeding them, I would still own them because these 2 are beautiful animals.

First, how can you have a champagne (co-dom), pinstrip(dom) and an albino (recessive) in the same snake and it show visible traits of all three. It has orange eyes, a pinstriped back and champagne coloring. When I first saw it I thought recessive was always a het but he is showing signs of albino.

The second is my mystic potion. She is a pb and I would like to make pastel mystic potions however I was told that in order for that to work a mojave trait needs to be in both parents. Meaning, I would need a pastel/mojave breed to a mystic potions to get a pastel mystic potion. Is this true?

Thanks

Grant

This is my first post on the forum so sorry for the rapid first questions haha

[JodanOrNoDan]

Play around here http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

A little more studying is going to needed to understand the whys.

Recessive, Co-Dominant, Dominate all express themselves differently.

The terms super, als, and 'het' also need to be understood.

A mystic potion is an ALS of the co-doms mystic and mojave. An als is basically two different genes that reside as a pair on the same allele.

[paulh]

Welcome to the ball-pythons.net forums!

First, the champagne pinstripe albino. This is a three gene pair problem.

The genes in a champage pinstripe albino ball python:
Gene pair 1 = 1 champage gene and 1 normal gene
Gene pair 2 = 1 pinstripe gene and 1 normal gene (possible but less likely, 2 pinstripe genes)
Gene pair 3 = 2 albino genes
All of the other approximately 20,000 gene pairs are made up of 2 normal genes.

The World of Ball Pythons web site has pictures of a champagne pinstripe ball python. (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...gne-pinstripe/) I would expect that adding albino to the mix would remove the black/brown pigment without affecting the yellow pigment. Look especially at the pupils of the eyes; they should be pink to red. Or could the snake be a toffee instead of an albino? That would lighten the snake without removing all the black/brown pigment.

Second, the mystic potion. I do not understand what you mean by writing that she is a pb. Please clarify that if it makes a difference.

A mystic potion leads you into the Wonderful World of Multiple Alleles. Alleles are different genes that have corresponding locations in the genome, which allows them to form a gene pair. A champagne gene and the corresponding normal gene form a gene pair, so they are alleles. A pinstripe gene and the corresponding normal gene form a gene pair so they are alleles. A pinstripe gene and a champagne gene do not have corresponding locations. They cannot form a gene pair and are not alleles. Make sense?

A gene pair is made up either of two copies of one allele or of one copy each of two alleles. A champagne ball python has one copy of the champagne allele and one copy of the corresponding normal allele. An albino ball python has two copies of the albino allele. But there can be three or more alleles scattered among many individuals. See http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php. Especially, look at the list of genes in the blue eyed leucistic complex.

A mystic potion ball python has no normal genes in the gene pair for the blue eyed leucistic complex. The mystic potion gene pair has a phantom (aka mystic) gene paired with a mojave gene.

The pastel gene is in a totally different gene pair. So producing a pastel mystic potion is a two gene pair problem--
Gene pair 1 = 1 phantom (aka mystic) gene and 1 mojave gene (for the mystic potion part of the appearance)
Gene pair 2 = 1 pastel gene and 1 normal gene (for the pastel part of the appearance)

IMO, the easiest way to produce a pastel mystic potion is to breed a pastel mojave snake to a phantom snake. But there are plenty of other ways. Breeding a pastel phantom to a mojave would do it. Breeding a pastel mojave to a mystic potion would, too. Play around with a genetics calculator (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/) and you will find other ways.

Multiple alleles is getting into the murky end of the pool. Keep on posting to get it clearer.

[paulh]

Play around here http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

A little more studying is going to needed to understand the whys.

Recessive, Co-Dominant, Dominate all express themselves differently.

The terms super, als, and 'het' also need to be understood.

A mystic potion is an ALS of the co-doms mystic and mojave. An als is basically two different genes that reside as a pair on the same allele.

For the meanings of recessive, codominant and dominant (dominate is a misspelling), see https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...bones+genetics

Also see that link for the meanings of homozygous, heterozygous, mutant and normal.

Super = has a gene pair made up of two copies (homozygous) of a codominant mutant gene. Example: a super mojave ball python has a gene pair made up of two mojave mutant genes. A super mojave is one of the blue eyed leucistic ball pythons. A super mojave does not look like a normal ball python or a mojave ball python.

als (AKA acts like super) = a gene pair made up of two different codominant mutant alleles. (There is no such term in standard genetics.)

het = short for heterozygous.

Alleles are different genes that can form a gene pair. See my previous post in this thread.

[NJ Balls]

I bought this book, it's expensive but well worth it.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Ball...ds=morph+maker

[Weremey59]

Sorry for getting back to you late, I've been building racks and getting all my enclosures set up. Thank you very much for the awesome information, it really helped me out. Here is what I have come to a conclusion on. The orange eyes my 1.0 pin champ has is from the combination of the champ and the albino. The albino has slightly influenced the coloring however the majority of the light color is from the champagne. I didn't know that champ had those eyes as well (though they are a different tint). Please correct me if that doesn't sound right.