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  1. #61
    Registered User richardhind1972's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    I had one the other week in the water dish with my new little boas I had to dissect to make sure it wasn’t a regurgitation and was just hair. Stunk well bad🤪


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  3. #62
    BPnet Veteran MissterDog's Avatar
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    Tapioca has pooped one of those before. From what I've seen and read, perfectly normal and not that uncommon :p first time I saw one of those I thought one of the cats magically coughed a hair ball in the cage haha
    1.0 Ball Python (Mystic Potion) Tapioca
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  5. #63
    Registered User ckuhn003's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    I took Phantom out for the 3rd consecutive night for a small holding session (the 1st two were pretty positive). Tonight he was pretty squirmy trying to latch on to anything in site. As I tried to pry him off of the rim of the tub he opened his mouth acting like he was going to strike. It was almost a repeat situation of the 1st time when he struck after I tried to re-correct him when he started to squirm.

    I kind of waited him out and let him chill while he was latched to his enclosure and then proceed to put him back. Remembering what was said on here by not letting his 'bad behavior' dictate him being put back in the enclosure, I decided to attempt to get him out again. He was still active and latched himself onto the lid which i just waited him out again while rubbing his body with my hand.

    Was this the proper approach to take? I felt like if I really tried to hold hold him then I would of gotten tagged.
    1.0 Toffino - (Fred)

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  6. #64
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ckuhn003 View Post
    I took Phantom out for the 3rd consecutive night for a small holding session (the 1st two were pretty positive). Tonight he was pretty squirmy trying to latch on to anything in site. As I tried to pry him off of the rim of the tub he opened his mouth acting like he was going to strike. It was almost a repeat situation of the 1st time when he struck after I tried to re-correct him when he started to squirm.

    I kind of waited him out and let him chill while he was latched to his enclosure and then proceed to put him back. Remembering what was said on here by not letting his 'bad behavior' dictate him being put back in the enclosure, I decided to attempt to get him out again. He was still active and latched himself onto the lid which i just waited him out again while rubbing his body with my hand.

    Was this the proper approach to take? I felt like if I really tried to hold hold him then I would of gotten tagged.
    If he got squirmy and opened his mouth, etc. He was telling you, that's enough. It might too much for him right now, three days in a row.

    If he shows signs of being overwhelmed, put him back and leave alone at least the rest of that day, and probably the next as well.

    Personally, I think you are moving too fast with him. He's little and very young. He's not used to be handled yet and you want even experience to be a good one. You are pushing your luck taking him out three days in a row, IMO.

    For reference, I almost never (there has to a be good reason) take out any of my snakes more than once a day, and usually not every day either. All of mine are calm and docile every time they are handled, and aside from Solana (who we have only had two months - and is incredibly calm and docile already), I've been handling every snake I have for anywhere between a year and 5 years plus, depending on how long I've had them. I make a point of not stressing them out, if I can avoid it, ever.

    I respect them and their solitary nature, and, in turn, they tend to respect me too.

    You were worried in the past about having bad handling experiences and having that ruin your rapport with Phantom. I think you are getting there. You can't make him calm down, it's going to happen with time and size on him.

    Leave him alone tonight and tomorrow and try again the day after (unless it's feeding day). I would handle, at the most, every other day, until he's bigger and isn't squirming so much and is chilling more.

    I am not sure how long you have him out either. I would say, at his size and age, 5 minutes tops per handling session. Low traffic areas, with little movement or things that could distract or scare him.

    You can not dictate your will on a snake. You win over time with repetition and respect.

    I am not trying to be a jerk, and again, go back to your prior question on whether or not you can ruin your rapport you are building with him and if he can revert. I think you can absolutely prolong developing it and/or ruin it by asserting yourself, rather than listening to him.

    As you have learned, "getting tagged" by a snake that size is hardly a big deal. I wouldn't worry about that. I would worry about what you are doing to make him feel like he has to. As you have said, he is chill most of the time, that seems to be his M.O. He does not seem aggressive or defensive. Be patient. He should be with you another 20-30 years if you take care of him.

    Good luck and keep us in the loop.

  7. #65
    Registered User ckuhn003's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    If he got squirmy and opened his mouth, etc. He was telling you, that's enough. It might too much for him right now, three days in a row.

    If he shows signs of being overwhelmed, put him back and leave alone at least the rest of that day, and probably the next as well.

    Personally, I think you are moving too fast with him. He's little and very young. He's not used to be handled yet and you want even experience to be a good one. You are pushing your luck taking him out three days in a row, IMO.

    For reference, I almost never (there has to a be good reason) take out any of my snakes more than once a day, and usually not every day either. All of mine are calm and docile every time they are handled, and aside from Solana (who we have only had two months - and is incredibly calm and docile already), I've been handling every snake I have for anywhere between a year and 5 years plus, depending on how long I've had them. I make a point of not stressing them out, if I can avoid it, ever.

    Leave him alone tonight and tomorrow and try again the day after (unless it's feeding day). I would handle, at the most, every other day, until he's bigger and isn't squirming so much and is chilling more.

    I am not sure how long you have him out either. I would say, at his size and age, 5 minutes tops per handling session. Low traffic areas, with little movement or things that could distract or scare him.

    You can not dictate your will on a snake. You win over time with repetition and respect.

    I am not trying to be a jerk, and again, go back to your prior question on whether or not you can ruin your rapport you are building with him and if he can revert. I think you can absolutely prolong developing it and/or ruin it by asserting yourself, rather than listening to him.

    As you have learned, "getting tagged" by a snake that size is hardly a big deal. I wouldn't worry about that. I would worry about what you are doing to make him feel like he has to. As you have said, he is chill most of the time, that seems to be his M.O. He does not seem aggressive or defensive. Be patient. He should be with you another 20-30 years if you take care of him. Always appreciate the advice!

    Good luck and keep us in the loop.
    No offense taken whatsoever! This is why I ask what may seem like simple questions because this is my 1st 'rodeo' with BOAs and snakes in general. I was figuring that I only had 4 days a week to hold Phantom (accounting for a non holding feeding day and 48 hours afterwards) but if every other day during the four days is suggested then I'll incorporate that into our schedule. And to be clear, holding time has only been a matter of minutes (< 5) and it's basically tapping him and taking him out near his enclosure. It's a quiet room and I don't take him anywhere (other then when I got bit the 1st time and learned a valuable lesson). I will say that once he finds something he can latch on, it's very difficult trying to pry him loose. I think this is where he gets stressed and starts going into defensive mode. Maybe I should try and do a better job of keeping him away from objects that he can grab onto. Thanks again for the feedback!
    1.0 Toffino - (Fred)

    1.0 Super Ghost BCI - (Phantom)

    1.0 Boxer - (Cooper)

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  9. #66
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ckuhn003 View Post
    No offense taken whatsoever! This is why I ask what may seem like simple questions because this is my 1st 'rodeo' with BOAs and snakes in general. I was figuring that I only had 4 days a week to hold Phantom (accounting for a non holding feeding day and 48 hours afterwards) but if every other day during the four days is suggested then I'll incorporate that into our schedule. And to be clear, holding time has only been a matter of minutes (< 5) and it's basically tapping him and taking him out near his enclosure. It's a quiet room and I don't take him anywhere (other then when I got bit the 1st time and learned a valuable lesson). I will say that once he finds something he can latch on, it's very difficult trying to pry him loose. I think this is where he gets stressed and starts going into defensive mode. Maybe I should try and do a better job of keeping him away from objects that he can grab onto. Thanks again for the feedback!
    I am glad, I am only trying to help.

    You'll have to experiment with the handling sessions. Try every other day except for digestion days off and feeding day. Then try two days in a row in a month or two. Once he seems calmer consistently, you can try 2 days, day off, 1 day, etc. It's all about reading the animal. He has told you for now, every day is too much, that's all. Doesn't mean forever.

    Remember, he's young and tiny! He thinks everything is a threat to his life! As he grows bigger, he won't be as afraid, and as you work with him, he WILL learn to trust you. How long that takes is on his terms though, not yours.

    Boas that are very defensive calm often be calmed down quite a bit. He seems like Behira, calm and docile in nature, so he should tame out pretty quick. However, and again, on his time line.

    Remember, you have 25 years or so to enjoy Phantom, take your time and let him "come to you," so to speak. It will pay dividends in creating a rapport and will pay off huge when he's 5ft and 6-8 pounds!

    I think you are just really eager to make it happen and you, understandably, want to spend time with your new little guy. It makes sense, but pace yourself too. Realize he's off limits some days and it will take time, but in the long run, it will be a small amount of time in his and your lifetime together.

    People often anthropomorphize animals, but it's also important to understand what type of animal and how they think. Snakes are pretty basic creatures; they feel safe, scared/defensive, hungry, and occasionally, randy, but that's about it. Yes, they can learn to recognize a keeper/handler by scent/taste and they learn to be hook trained, and not be defensive and feel safe being handled. However, Rome wasn't built in a day. A lot of good time together and repetition will lead to good results.

    Ask Richardhind1972 about his IMG Boa who's pretty calm now. She wasn't so much as a juvenile .

    Again, good luck and keep us in the loop.

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  11. #67
    Registered User ckuhn003's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Phantom continues to eat without hesitation. I think this makes it 4 or 5 weeks in a row which is such a relief from my BP who is on a current month long food strike. This week I'll be leaving for a 4 day vacation; taking off on the morning of his usual feeding day. Sounds like a silly question but would you feed the night before (6 days from last feeding) or wait until I return (10 days from last feeding). I wouldn't even pose this as a question if it was my BP but since Boas have slower digestive system, I wanted to see if there were any risks.

    On a side note, heeding to Daski's advice of over handling, I've been trying to cut back. We had a short handling session last night where I calmly allowed Phantom to call the shots where he wanted to explore and he did a great job.
    1.0 Toffino - (Fred)

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  13. #68
    BPnet Veteran EL-Ziggy's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Glad to hear things are going well with Phantom CK. I'd probably wait until you return from your vacation to feed him. You wouldn't want him to poop, or heaven forbid regurgitate, while you're gone for a few days. I'm sure he'll be fine with 10 days between feedings.
    3.2 carpet pythons, 1.1 bull snakes
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  15. #69
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Phantom: Super Ghost BCI Progression Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy View Post
    Glad to hear things are going well with Phantom CK. I'd probably wait until you return from your vacation to feed him. You wouldn't want him to poop, or heaven forbid regurgitate, while you're gone for a few days. I'm sure he'll be fine with 10 days between feedings.
    Glad to hear he’s continuing to do well as well.

    I agree. 10 days is fine.

    Have a nice trip.

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  17. #70
    BPnet Senior Member CloudtheBoa's Avatar
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    That size is bigger than what I feed as well, my boas are only on hopper mice every 10-14 days at the size he arrived at. As long as it leaves little to no bump immediately after swallowing, then that's the size I'd aim for.


    He's a good-looking boy, congrats! I believe I've seen the name Chausmer before.


    For feeding, I generally just warm up the prey item enough that it isn't cold. I don't heat it to body temp or anything. Some may like it warmed, and I usually just soak them in hot tap water for a couple minutes to acheive this, since it warms them throughout and not just the surface. Most boas will greet you at the door and take the food as soon as it's in front of them, but if your boa is a little shyer, you'll just have to work out what is best for your individual.


    Glad to hear his first feeding went well, I haven't had a new boa constrictor refuse yet, though it does happen. haha


    For the bite, yeah, it's possible he just got too much. I don't handle my snakes daily, maybe once or twice a month for 5-15 mins at a time, maybe once or twice a week at most. Some snakes can easily get overwhelmed with daily handling, especially with lots of people around. At least you found out baby snake bites aren't that bad. lol The blood can be surprising, since they bleed more than they should due to the anticoagulants in their saliva. It can also cause a very minor allergic reaction, usually no worse than the bite being slightly red and raised, similar to a mosquito bite but not as bad.


    Sometimes boas can panic a bit when getting them out. Generally, so long as you let them anchor themselves to you and keep them feeling as secure as possible, they'll calm right down once they come out. The key is letting them grip themselves to you, and take it at their pace getting them untangled. On the other hand, many babies will be flighty/bitey/hissy while they're small. With a couple years to gain some size, they generally gain confidence and tame out, especially as you become more familiar with how to handle them in a way they like. If you have a strong feeling of "I should wait another day to handle," definitely follow that intuition, though. If you're worried about getting bit, it can make the snake nervous, too.

    Sounds like everything is falling into place as you get a feel for him, here's to many more years together!
    3.3 Boa imperator ('15 sunglow "Nymeria," '11 wild-type "Cloud," '15 ghost "Tirel," '16 anery motley "Crona," '10 ghost "Howl," '08 junge "Dominika")
    0.0.1 ball python ('06 "Bud")
    2.0 garter snake ('13 albino checkered "Draco," '13 wild-type eastern "Demigod")
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