Lost 70% of all eggs

[Mr.Snake]

I figured I'd share my season and get some tips and maybe help others avoid some of my mistakes. In short, we have lost about 70% of eggs from all clutches this season.

We incubated this season using 2 Reptibators. Both set up identically, both had the same results. We used Perlite as a substrate, when we put it in we had it reasonably damp, you could clump it a bit. We had a layer of light diffuser on top of it and had a digital thermometer with humidity reading on it, set also on the same level as the eggs for a accurate reading at their level. The eggs were set directly on the light diffuser, they were not in individual small tubs. we kept the digital readout reading 89 degrees, no fluctuations to speak of. The readout had the humidity at 90. Would sometimes be 94 or 95, but never hit below 90.

All 5 clutches had the same results. The eggs seemed fine for a while, but after time most in each clutch got SEVERELY sunken it. Usually the bottom would suck up towards the top of the egg. The eggs that were worst never made it.

My suspicion is that the humidity was too low early on in incubation, maybe the 90% I was getting as a reading was not correct? I think I should have had no substrate in the reptibator, but maybe set them up in individual shoebox tubs with wet substrate with diffuser on top and a lid? I'm open to ideas here

I cut a 5 egg clutch yesterday at day 54 because I was worried how the eggs were getting worse. it was originally a 7 egg clutch. Of the 5, 3 are alive.

I had one more clutch. They are on day 51. I just cut them. The eggs over the last few days have rapidly gotten worse. My thinking is the eggs sinking in so bad is at times running the snek out of room or cutting off the umbilical cord? Of the 8 egg clutch, 4 were dead. The other 4, by cutting them I was able to gently manipulate the egg a bit to give them more room. I only put a small opening in it. I'm not sure I'm right in doing this, but after thinking about it all night and not sleeping I did it out of a desperation move to try and save this clutch. The 4 look alive and now seem to have more room, I'll post the end results with these 50% Het sunset babies as it progresses.

For added info, on the other earlier clutches I had, I cut when the babies started to PIP, which for every clutch has been day 55.

Another side note. I do not support cutting early just to cut, my stomach was in knots cutting at 51, so please understand the nature of this was strictly as a measure to try and offer assistance to the babies....with my biggest fear being they had no room due to the eggs sinking in on themselves. In some cases the bottom of the egg actually sunk in all the way to the top.

ETA we did add water to the substrate regularly

[Lord Sorril]

I'm not familiar with the Reptibators.

My incubator hygrometers read 99% all the time for ball python eggs, if any were lower than 99% humidity--it would indicate to me that there is a serious issue with that setup and/or a malfunctioning hygrometer.

[Sirus Uno]

Was there anything between substrate and eggs? Crate? If the eggs were in direct contact with the moisture source they could've "drowned". If not then there was a humidity issue. Some plastic wrap between lid and tub could fix that. Lift one end by putting a book or block as riser could tilt the tub as to create an incline so any condensation would run to he edge avoiding any drips on the eggs.

With that being said, I'm sorry for your loss! That is a high percentage of egg to lose and hope you can correct the issue for next season! Keep your head up!

[Stewart_Reptiles]

1/ I would not trust reptibator or it's thermostat

2/ Not egg box, which means not lid which means you allowed for the humidity to evaporate leading to your results. What you describe are eggs drying out.

3/ Inaccurate humidity ready

The main issue is number 2 however the eggs were salvageable one you noticed that they started to deflate early on, adding water and having them in a sealed container would have saved them.

I have used the substrateless incubation method for a little over 10 years now with no issue here is are I setup my egg boxes

For BP I use a 7 quarts latchable tub, I use a 2.1 ratio of perlite and water (4 cups of perlite/2cups of water), I place the light diffuser, the eggs, close the lid (I have never used press and seal), incubate my eggs at 88, and I do not check on my eggs (opening the tubs) until the very last week of incubation when I start airing them out by opening the lid every other day.

The only eggs I have ever lost are eggs going bad and molding (eggs with poor veins or animals that die during incubation which are just not meant to be)

[Mr.Snake]

Was there anything between substrate and eggs? Crate? If the eggs were in direct contact with the moisture source they could've "drowned". If not then there was a humidity issue. Some plastic wrap between lid and tub could fix that. Lift one end by putting a book or block as riser could tilt the tub as to create an incline so any condensation would run to he edge avoiding any drips on the eggs.

With that being said, I'm sorry for your loss! That is a high percentage of egg to lose and hope you can correct the issue for next season! Keep your head up!

There was crate between them yes

[Mr.Snake]

I'm not familiar with the Reptibators.

My incubator hygrometers read 99% all the time for ball python eggs, if any were lower than 99% humidity--it would indicate to me that there is a serious issue with that setup and/or a malfunctioning hygrometer.

This is where I suspect my problem was. I had a sheet that said the incubation should be between 88-90 degrees and 90-100% humidity. I thought I was ok at 90-93, obviously not though

[Mr.Snake]

1/ I would not trust reptibator or it's thermostat

2/ Not egg box, which means not lid which means you allowed for the humidity to evaporate leading to your results. What you describe are eggs drying out.

3/ Inaccurate humidity ready

The main issue is number 2 however the eggs were salvageable one you noticed that they started to deflate early on, adding water and having them in a sealed container would have saved them.

I have used the substrateless incubation method for a little over 10 years now with no issue here is are I setup my egg boxes

For BP I use a 7 quarts latchable tub, I use a 2.1 ratio of perlite and water (4 cups of perlite/2cups of water), I place the light diffuser, the eggs, close the lid (I have never used press and seal), incubate my eggs at 88, and I do not check on my eggs (opening the tubs) until the very last week of incubation when I start airing them out by opening the lid every other day.

The only eggs I have ever lost are eggs going bad and molding (eggs with poor veins or animals that die during incubation which are just not meant to be)

I did use a digital thermostat in addition to the reptibators built in one.

I agree, in hindsight I should have used a egg box. Reading on this is all over the place as to how breeders do it. I chose the wrong path here. That's part of why I'm posting this, to help others.

As far as saving the eggs, this is where it gets tricky. When they started to deflate it was late in incubation and happened fast. I did call a breeder i had bought from in the past and was told that eggs absorb moisture for the 1st 30 days of incubation, so it was too late to correct that issue. I fully accept this advice may be wrong, which again is why I'm here trying to get more info.

[Mr.Snake]

On a positive note it does appear the 4 I cut are still ok. One has its little peeper out.

I will not be using this set up next season obviously.

One of the problems I think hurt us is that all of our clutches were pretty much laid very close together. So once we realized there was a issue, all had already been exposed to the problem for most of their incubation

[tttaylorrr]

i think it's important to share the bad just as much as the good. im so very sorry for your loss, but i appreciate you taking the time to share and try to help our community. as an aspiring breeder, posts like these are much appreciated and very valuable.

again, sorry you took such a huge loss; that's heartbreaking.

[Mr.Snake]

i think it's important to share the bad just as much as the good. im so very sorry for your loss, but i appreciate you taking the time to share and try to help our community. as an aspiring breeder, posts like these are much appreciated and very valuable.

again, sorry you took such a huge loss; that's heartbreaking.

Thank you for this post. I felt it was important to share because initially I thought everything was set up right in regard to temps and humidity being in the acceptable range. I'm hoping that this helps someone maybe avoid a mistake