Questions about king/milk snakes

[dboeren]

Hey guys! I currently have a diamond/jungle carpet python but am interested in getting into some other types of snakes that stay small enough to live in a rack. Kings and Milks seem to offer a lot of diversity and I used to have a banana Cal King many years ago that was pretty cool.

Thing is though, there are a LOT of different species and subspecies and I haven't yet been able to find a good chart covering the differences in their needs. I guess the main thing I'm looking for at this point are:

1. What species have similar enough temperature requirements to share a rack? I expect probably a lot of them CAN, and then there are going to be a few outliers that want hotter/colder temps and I'd like to know which ones these are so I can narrow down what species I'm looking for.

2. Any other unusual housing or feeding needs I should know about? For instance, it sounds like alterna may have trouble converting from lizards to rodents?

3. Are there any particular species that are hard to get or unusually expensive? The only one I know of right now is that Black Milksnakes seem to be pretty expensive.

4. What size tubs should I be looking at? It sounds like most should be good in 40qt size but some species may be OK in 28qt? Is a 40qt big enough for Hondurans?

I expect to keep a small variety of species - possibly one pair (or trio) to try my hand at breeding and then a few singles. I'm particularly interested in Cal Kings, Sinaloans, and Tangerine Hondurans but also open to suggestions.

I can attend Repticon in/near Atlanta and north to mid Florida including Tampa, Orlando, FIRExpo, etc... Any impressions on which shows would have the best selection of king/milk snakes?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

1. What species have similar enough temperature requirements to share a rack? I expect probably a lot of them CAN, and then there are going to be a few outliers that want hotter/colder temps and I'd like to know which ones these are so I can narrow down what species I'm looking for.

Most Milks and Kings are usually offered a a hot spot of 84/85 at most, anything higher is really over killed and when breeding will lead to slugs.

2. Any other unusual housing or feeding needs I should know about? For instance, it sounds like alterna may have trouble converting from lizards to rodents?

Not with the most commonly kept Milk or King.

3. Are there any particular species that are hard to get or unusually expensive? The only one I know of right now is that Black Milksnakes seem to be pretty expensive.

What is your budget, price vary greatly between species and mutations from below $50 to several hundreds, black milk are not expensive from my point of view so knowing your budget will narrow it down.

4. What size tubs should I be looking at? It sounds like most should be good in 40qt size but some species may be OK in 28qt? Is a 40qt big enough for Hondurans?

Smaller species such as Cal king will do fine in a 28 quarts, larger species such as Honduran Milk etc will enjoy the extra room of a 41 quarts tub.

I can attend Repticon in/near Atlanta and north to mid Florida including Tampa, Orlando, FIRExpo, etc... Any impressions on which shows would have the best selection of king/milk snakes?

Your best choices are usually at the Daytona show, more breeders and more variety.

[dboeren]

For budget... I would say that up to around $250-300 is fine and I expect most common king/milk species to be closer to $80-150. Maybe I've been unlucky with black milks, but the ones I've seen listed online have been more like $600. I guess I look at colubrids differently since they're smaller and I expect to have multiples. I wouldn't see $600 as a problem for a nice carpet python but I'd only be shopping for one of those at a time

I'm not looking for crazy mutations (I'll leave that to the corn/ball fans). For a Cal King I'd probably go for a Banana or a classic black/white, possibly a stripe if it caches my eye.

85ish sounds about right from the care sheets I've seen, but I've heard Mexican Black Kings like it a few degrees hotter and I didn't want to accidentally end up trying to mix two opposite species that want say 88 and 82 - enough difference that you can't make both of them happy.

Daytona should be doable and that gives me plenty of time to get a rack ready too, I'll look up some more info on the show.

Given that Daytona is in August, would you say that you'd expect to see mostly 2018 babies there? Or would it be likely to have a good selection of 1-3 year olds also? I wouldn't mind skipping over the skittish baby stage but it's never sure whether you'll be able to get some nice holdbacks or if you're stuck with the leftovers

[Craiga 01453]

I can't speak on tubs or racks since I don't use them, but I'll say this: my adult Cal King is about 52" and 776 grams. He's in a 4x2x2 enclosure and uses every inch.

As for temps, most of the year I run ambient temps only with the warmer side around 82 and the cooler side around 78.

Kings are notorious garbage disposals when it comes to food. They'll typically eat just about anything just about any time. I've often joked that Django would eat a slice of pizza off tongs if I offered it, as long as it's meat lovers, hahaha!

All in all, Kings are awesome snakes and are super easy to keep. I'll advocate for Kings 100 times out of 100. Django is my favorite snake I've ever kept and as long as I'm in the hobby I'll have at least one King in my collection.

[Bogertophis]

Kings ARE great...but don't offer pizza! They just might...?

[Craiga 01453]

Kings ARE great...but don't offer pizza! They just might...?

Hahaha!!! I should have included a disclaimer!!!

[Sunnieskys]

Well just rescuing a pueblan I can say they have awesome personalities and are just too damn cute for their own good! And yes to garbage disposals lol. Mine is always ready for a meal!

[pretends2bnormal]

I've heard about the lizard eating thing with gray banded kingsnakes from the breeder of the one I have (the ones I assume you mean by alterna), but with patience he said any can be converted and that he never offers one for sale that isn't eating normal frozen rodents. It sounded like hatchlings won't start eating without it, so that's good to keep in mind if you did breed them.

My male has always eaten frozen thawed just fine for me and acts like kingsnakes are reputed to in regards to food. So, I suspect that would be fine if you make sure what they're eating before you buy. He's way more laid back and slow moving than my eastern king (who is young and completely spazzy) or my honduran milk (who is docile and never musks, but moves more).

I bought mine from Stuart Tennyson with Stu's Herps.
Gray banded kings from him at the expo were around $120-150.



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[dboeren]

Thanks for all the information so far! I've been doing a lot of reading online today about different species and have tried to narrow things down to a short list of species:

36" l.mexicana Kingsnake (mex-mex, greeri, alterna)
42" Mexican Black Kingsnake
42" l. pyromelana knoblochi (late add-on)
48" California Kingsnake
48" Sinaloan Milksnake
54" Honduran Milksnake
60" Black Milksnake

Ultimately, it will probably come down to whatever catches my eye at the show but it's good to have some idea what you're looking for and get a chance to get familiar with pricing ahead of time.

I found some pics of an adult black milksnake and they're pretty impressive looking, so if I can get one for a reasonable cost I'd definitely be interested and I have a vacant 4x2x1 Boaphile that I think would make a great home for an adult Black Milk (either that or I've also thought about housing a Blood Python in it).

[Alter-Echo]

Ive kept tons of kings and milks over the years, probably the easiest snakes I've ever owned. I've always kept mine at ambient reptile room temp (85f day, 75f night) and kept in glass cages on aspen bedding. All are very good eaters, the only hiccup is that pyromelana and other mountain kings seem to like prey a size or two smaller than most other kings and milks.