New and first time owner- Situation with my bp

[alilak]

Hi guys

I wanted to post an update about Monty and what has been going on and was hoping some of you could provide some opinions / advice.

Some background:

I got Monty just slightly over a month and a half ago, he is a 2 and a half year old Enchi male, currently weighing 780g as of last week. Substrate in use was a 50/50 mix of zoomed eco earth & zoomed forest floor bedding. Pictures of my set-up are below.

- he had shed at the beginning of May and had eaten twice before I picked him up on the 12th of May.

- He did not eat in the first week during the adjustment period.

- He gradually adjusted and has eaten 3 times every Saturday (2 large f/t mice, one per week and then last last meal 2 weeks ago- successfully switched to f/t weaner rat. Also had a couple of good handling sessions. Basically all was going really well he was getting more confident/curious etc

- things started going a bit downhill since 2 weeks ago; we noticed him blow a bubble and I also noticed some mites. After observing him for a day we decided to take him to our local vet who had experience. She confirmed that he has a slight RI and that the best option would be to do a culture to find out exactly what type of infection it is. We were told to take him home, clean out everything / wipe down everything and then keep him on paper towel. We also let Monty soak in some warm water for a while.

I feel this has happened because of an oversight of mine in relation to my husbandry. I had everything spot on but the mistake I was making was that I would regularly mist / spray water around the terrarium to get the humidity up- not so much that it was getting wet, but enough to just soak in a little. I would also have a damp towel on top- humidy would read around 75 and decrease over a couple of days.

Further to this, I also had not fully cleaned out the terrarium because I wanted Monty to adjust and he only recently started exploring his terrarium, however I was spot cleaning as best as possible.

I guess the above caused RI and created conditions for mites.

Current status:

His is back in his terrarium and has been now for a week- it is drier now and he seems comfortable on the paper towel with humidity in the range of 60 - 65%.

The terrarium and all its contents were wiped down thoroughly with F10, hides soaked in F10 and everything else then rinsed and reinserted. I have ordered a safe reptile mite spray which can be used on both the enclosure as well as Monty which arrives in a few days.

Monty refused food last Saturday (as the trip to the vet was the day before) and has been quite lethargic since then. From observing him I can't hear any wheezing and his Mouth and nose are dry. I haven't spotted any mites on him / can't see any on the white paper towel except a couple that seem to be dead.

My question is about my next steps; it seems that he is also going into shed- as it seems this way based on the timing. It's been over 1 and half month and he's had 5 meals. He colour seems dull and he only wants to sleep in the warm hide (regulated via thermostat). I also updated the vet about the current status.

The vet suggested I put some moss or sponges in his warm hide to help if he's shedding and that she felt it wasn't necessary right now to bring him in for the culture etc. I didn't want to cause more stress by removing his hide, inserting sponges, maybe handling etc so he can rest. Thoughts?

Shall I just leave him to rest / wait for him to shed before treating him and the terrarium with the mite spray. Am I right to be worried that causing extra stress now could lead to a bad shed?

Thank you!








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[L.West]

Sorry to hear you are having issues. I have no experience with RI's thankfully but your comment about creating an environment for mites is incorrect. Mites don't just appear - they had to had come in on your snake or you brought some in on your clothes from a pet store or reptile show.

More than likely, your snake had them when you got him and it took time to show up.

Someone else will chime in on the RI issues.

[artgecko]

No experience with RIs here, but hopefully some antibiotics from your vet will help clear that up, once your culture comes back. I would check your temps on the warm side and make sure it is up to par so that his immune system can fight off the RI.

Mites come either on a snake, in bedding, or in clothing if you have been to a place with reptiles. They can be in bedding if the bedding was stored at a place that has reptiles. It is easy to miss them if they are on the snake, etc.

You will need to treat him for the mites because they will not vanish even with F10. I have used PAM (prevent-a-mite) spray in the past, which is used to spray the enclosure and paper towels. You then let it all dry very well (as in 1 day or so) before the snake comes in contact with it. You can just spray the paper towels, let dry, then put in enclosure. The mite eggs can be on objects too..so hides / water bowls, etc. But the spray will not kill eggs, only adults. You can also get a spray that can be used on the snake. Reptile relief I think is what it is called. You spray a paper towel, then wipe on the snake. You remove their water bowl for 24 hours, then can return it.

That said, I don't know if treating the mites (other than spraying paper towels with PAM and putting in enclosure after they dry) is a good idea, since he is already stressed and has an RI to deal with. I would wait and see if other more experienced keepers chime in before deciding what to do.

[Bogertophis]

Suggestion for the future: when you get a new snake, even a BP that needs humidity, use white paper towels as substrate to start with & for a while, as mites
show up better that way. It's ALWAYS better to catch them before they multiply....it's not just a comfort issue but can be a major health issue for your snake.
Mites are thought to carry (spread) diseases, and when their numbers explode exponentially, they can weaken & kill a snake from the blood loss.

It's an easy mistake to make: you wanted him to be comfortable with nice humid substrate, but that allowed the mites to hide. You need to address them NOW.
Do NOT wait until he's over his RI...that can take a while...and mites can actually kill him sooner, or infect him.

So please clarify: did the vet DO a culture to see what to treat his RI with? and you're just waiting for the results on that?

It does sound like he's going into shed now, but you need to work on the mites, as described above: "PAM" aka Provent-a-Mite spray for cage ONLY, dry before
snake is re-introduced, Reptile Relief for use on the snake, & since you don't likely have either on hand yet, immediately give him a shallow warmish-water bath with
mild soap (Ivory) to drown as many mites as possible. The soap is a surfactant that makes mites drown & won't harm your snake; you can bathe him daily for about
20-30 minutes, staying right there with him; the water should be shallow, about half the height of his body...don't make him swim in deep water! The bathing will
also help hydrate him...to compensate both for the mites (sucking his blood) and the shedding process (that requires good hydration to shed well). He may be a bit
cranky about all this, partly from being in shed, but don't let that stop you...just be patient, gentle & reassuring. Remember he's just scared.
Another reason you must stay right with him during his "bath" is you should not let him drink the soapy water...his stomach won't appreciate it.

And don't worry about feeding him if he's going into shed, also don't worry about feeding him during treatments for mites and RI. He won't starve, and it's
important to get him healthy first. He probably wouldn't eat right now even if you offered, but don't...that just adds stress & little chance of success. IF he
did take food offered right now, and then you bathed him for mites or do other treatments, he may regurgitate the meal and THAT would be a set back. So
just don't feed right now, with all this going on. OK?

[alilak]

Ok I understand - the spray for the terrarium and the reptile relief will be with me in a few days. I won't attempt to feed and keep a close eye, and will give him a bath tomorrow. Regarding your question about the vet, she has not done the culture yet as she said to wait a few days, clean the terrarium etc and keep him under observation.

[Bogertophis]

If he was my snake, he'd be getting a bath this evening...AND again tomorrow, etc. Mites reproduce like crazy, they're nothing to fool with.

BTW, do you have any other snakes (or reptiles)? This one should be quarantined if you do...it's really NOT fun to have to treat multiple snakes for mites,
as they hide under scales on the snake (esp. chin, eyes, vent) & in cage, and re-emerge when you think they're gone. It's not rare for people to battle them
for a while, & have to re-treat the cage multiple times, etc.

Stress doesn't cause bad sheds in snakes, but dehydration does, and mites promote dehydration (by sucking blood from the snake). They seem so tiny, but
remember there's many more that you probably aren't seeing. Compared to the size of the snake they're tiny but don't under-estimate their ability to kill a
snake.

[alilak]

I do not have any other snakes or reptiles he is my only one. I will give him a bath tonight as well as tomorrow and put fresh paper towels down and then repeat this once I have the spray's arrive.

Dealing with mites is definitely very frustrating.

Thanks

[Bogertophis]

I do not have any other snakes or reptiles he is my only one....

Whew! you dodged that hassle at least. "This too shall pass..."