Getting former F/T eater back from eating live

[Jarvis the Python]

I just scanned that other "how do I get my BP eating F/T?" thread, but didn't want to hijack it, and also my situation's slightly different because my snake did eat thawed mice and rats consistently for a long time.

Our BP is probably a few months over 2 years old, we've had him right about 2 years now. For the first year and a half-ish he ate great. Frozen thawed only. Then going into this winter he went into a long fast that scared me a little. I've been all over this forum and other sites, I knew it's common, but it went on past winter into spring...I scrutinized my temps, hides, lighting, everything. Was careful to handle him rarely, even though when he was eating regularly he got handled more often and seemed fine with it.

Finally after maybe 4 months (winter's short in Tennessee) I got him to take an F/T rat, and thought everything was rosy again. The problem was, I couldn't get him to repeat it. That's the last one he's given a second glance to since November. I made sure his tank was clean, changed the bedding, tried leaving the food in his cage instead moving him to his old feeding container, checked his temps for the umpteenth time.... All these attempts were at night, too, I've always fed him at night since he was a baby. I tried the scenting the meal with gerbil bedding trick, with no luck. I was really hesitant to try anything live, fearing once he got one he'd never want to switch back. But eventually when he'd only taken that one rat in about 5 months, I gave in and bought a couple live mice.

He whammed the first one. I killed the second, thinking that freshly killed is at least closer to F/T than live, and a step in the right direction as well as being safer. He sniffed but wasn't buying. On a whim I decided to leave it in his cage overnight, and when I checked back 15 min later he had eaten it.

But that's the last time he's taken anything but live. I kept trying a live and an F/T, tried thawing the one in a little container with the live one to scent it, tried scenting the room beforehand with the live one to get him in the mood, tried everything. If it isn't moving of its own accord, he wants nothing to do with it. He looks almost embarrassed for me when I use tongs to "zombie walk" a dead one around. I've thrown away so many dead rodents in the last couple months, and am about ready to give in and resign myself to a snake addicted to the kill. But I thought I'd try you all just in case there's some hope, given that this same animal used to take thawed every time they were offered. Is there any way to flip the switch back?

[Bogertophis]

....He looks almost embarrassed for me when I use tongs to "zombie walk" a dead one around. I've thrown away so many dead rodents in the last couple months, and am about ready to give in and resign myself to a snake addicted to the kill. But I thought I'd try you all just in case there's some hope, given that this same animal used to take thawed every time they were offered. Is there any way to flip the switch back?

I couldn't help it, you made me laugh. Been there, done that...wish I had an easy answer for you. "Patience" feels pretty lame to say, as I'm pretty sure
that some BPs love to frustrate us, it's their mission in life?

[redshepherd]

How much does he weigh currently? What size prey are you feeding? Feeding too large prey also tends to put them on fasts.

No matter how long the fast, it really only becomes a problem if the snake has lost a significant amount of weight or is ill. I don't remember seeing anyone with feeding live and not switching back before, but I would think to just wait him out this time! Don't give in LOL. Start thinking that if the snake looks fine and of nice weight and nothing else is out of sorts, it's definitely fine.

tried leaving the food in his cage instead moving him to his old feeding container,

Just thought I'd quote this, are you still moving him to a separate container to feed? If so, that may be at least part of the problem. They'll have a much better chance of eating anything if you feed them in their cage.

[Bogertophis]

...Just thought I'd quote this, are you still moving him to a separate container to feed? If so, that may be at least part of the problem. They'll have a much better chance of eating anything if you feed them in their cage.

I agree: partly because they feel braver on their home turf, and also, being handled can put them off. Good call, redshepherd.

[bcr229]

Bear in mind that once males reach adulthood they really do not need to eat often at all. Some of mine only eat a rat every 4-5 weeks year round, others fast for 6 months, eat every 2-3 weeks for a few feedings, and then go off food again for another few months.

If he was on f/t then he will eat again when he gets hungry. I would just monitor his weight and offer a feeder every two weeks when he isn't in shed.

[Jarvis the Python]

He's around 550 grams, maybe a little over that. I wasn't weighing him regularly before the winter fast so I don't know if he's down from before that or not. But it's definitely not the size of the prey putting him off, he was regularly eating thawed rats quite a bit larger than the mice he's getting now.

Yes, I've generally continued to feed him in a separate enclosure since pretty much since we got him, because I didn't want him to associate us coming and opening his cage with food, and getting into that predatory, pre-strike mindset when we might just want to take him out. That seemed a lot more important back in the days when he was always quick to hammer meals, and once almost bit me before he noticed I wasn't a mouse and pulled back in time. When he got picky I hoped that going into the feeding enclosure would help stimulate feeding, just from the conditioning of him always having gone there to eat - that it would activate predator mode. But I've also tried leaving thawed mice in his cage and had him reject them, only to try bringing him to the enclosure and having him readily take something live. Home tank, feeding enclosure, whatever variables I change, the only deciding factor in whether he eats seems to be is it live, or not?

So far what I'm hearing is, keep a close eye on his weight, and of course on husbandry, and as long as he isn't losing too much body mass, then just wait him out? Just keep offering thawed and nothing else, until he gives in and eats, no matter how many months it takes? How much weight would he have to actually lose before I knew to abort and just feed him what he's wanting? I'm a little scared to try this, it feels like an extended, slow-motion game of chicken to me, with only my snake's life on the line.

[Bogertophis]

...

Yes, I've generally continued to feed him in a separate enclosure since pretty much since we got him, because I didn't want him to associate us coming and opening his cage with food, and getting into that predatory, pre-strike mindset when we might just want to take him out....

You are FAR more likely to get bit when you try to handle your snake after feeding him (to put him back in his regular home) since many snakes stay pumped up
in "feeding mode" for hours or even a day or more. It's stressful and distracting for snakes to be handled, even just to put them in another cage (to feed). May I
strongly suggest you feed him only in his own regular cage without any handling. There are easy ways for our snakes to tell it's NOT feeding time...it's FAR more
important to have a snake that's eating, ya? There are various reasons that BPs may refuse food, but you are making this much harder than it has to be.

And actually, since eating (& survival) is the main thing for our pet snakes, you really shouldn't be handling him at all until he's eating reliably for you. BPs have
their quirks & preferences, for sure, but feed him in his regular cage where he feels safer for best results.

[Alter-Echo]

Good luck, my adult female pastel went into her winter fast being a reliable f/t feeder, came out of it demanding live sacrifices. I have tried everything and have concluded that she will probably never go back now, dead prey seems to offend her no matter what I do.

May your luck be better than mine.