Personal Opinions on Spiders

[Craiga 01453]

I personally wouldn't buy a spider. But, I have absolutely zero issue with anybody who does, or anybody who produces them. I think many spiders are gorgeous, but since there are sooooooo many morphs to choose from, I would personally choose to go another direction. But that's just me.

Also, IF I ever add another BP (sooooo many species I want to add first) I would most likely go BEL, unless by that point Highways or Freeways have plummeted into my price range.

Anyway, I have no issue with people keeping or working with the spider gene, or others known for Neuro issues, but they're not for me with so many other options out there. But, if you find one ypu love, go for it!

[Alter-Echo]

Love spiders, and have no issues about breeding or keeping them, and plan on doing that myself in a few years. Most spiders I've seen and the spider combo I own have no wobble or a very minor one, so it doesn't really seem to effect them all that much.

[Valyrian]

I once saw a video of a Spider upside down writhing on the floor unable to right itself and turn over. Perhaps that was an extreme case and others are not as bad - as previous comments have said. But I found that particular case to be unethical. A cool paint job isn't worth causing an animal to suffer imo.

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[rufretic]

I have multiple spider combos and they range from one with no noticeable wobble to one with full on corkscrewing when excited for food, I have to watch my hands because she misses so badly lol. With that said, the one with the worst wobble is still my favorite. It does not seem to bother her in any way. I think people make way to big of a deal about it and it’s usually people that have never even owned one. If I didn’t know what to look for, I wouldn’t even of noticed anything different about all of mine but the one that corkscrews. It’s just not that noticeable in most of them. If you really like the look, you should get one. They are my best feeders and super chill for handling. My kids even love them the best.

[redshepherd]

I have no issue, but wouldn't get one myself... Some people seriously overreact and over-exaggerate the genetic issue in a spider.

Nobody wants to hear more dog breed comparisons, but if someone is so revved up about slamming spider breeders and buyers, why aren't they treating the majority of brachycephalic dog breeders and owners the same way? Do they scream whenever they see a french bulldog or pug in public and call the owner unethical for buying one? English bulldogs can't catch a ball without heaving for air, because their air passages are born constricted- some lines worse and some better. 60% of English bulldogs are dysplastic and either suffer pain for the majority of their lives or are put down.

Really, people need to see the big picture. Either decide to be loud about the healthy genetic breeding and improvement of all other suffering pet breeds, or don't scream your pants off about spider ball pythons and their owners.

(not talking about the OP, just the topic in general!)

[Valyrian]

I have no issue, but wouldn't get one myself... Some people seriously overreact and over-exaggerate the genetic issue in a spider.

Nobody wants to hear more dog breed comparisons, but if someone is so revved up about slamming spider breeders and buyers, why aren't they treating the majority of brachycephalic dog breeders and owners the same way? Do they scream whenever they see a french bulldog or pug in public and call the owner unethical for buying one? English bulldogs can't catch a ball without heaving for air, because their air passages are born constricted- some lines worse and some better. 60% of English bulldogs are dysplastic and either suffer pain for the majority of their lives or are put down.

Really, people need to see the big picture. Either decide to be loud about the healthy genetic breeding and improvement of all other suffering pet breeds, or don't scream your pants off about spider ball pythons and their owners.

(not talking about the OP, just the topic in general!)

I agree, it's true that certain dog breeds have physical characteristics that result in Ill health and the breeding of those animals is also unethical.

However, in my opinion those characteristics are not as debilitating as a genetic neurological disorder causing poor coordination and poor motor control.

There is a common perception in society that reptiles are worth less than mammalian pets. If a dog breed carried a genetic neurological disorder that caused poor balance and poor motor control there would be uproar amongst the general population. I believe society should see reptiles on par with mammallian pets and consider the propagation of debilitating genetic disorders as equally bad for all of them.

The problem though arises in how far that should go. What should be considered a debilitating condition and what should be considered acceptable? It comes down to personal opinion. Personally I have an albino snake which some people may believe is a debilitating condition due to light sensitivity etc.

I recently saw a video about a guy breeding ball pythons with no heat pits. To me that is unethical because the animal is in effect disabled and unable to function properly. I see the Spider gene in the same light.

But I'm just one guy and this is my opinion.

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[Crowfingers]

As cool as they look I also could not purchase one knowing that the gene is connected with a defect. Yes, they do fine in captivity, but the wobble is enough of a problem that it would not be viable in the wild - survival of the fittest - we can tease the gene out of them in controlled breeding, but in nature it would never pass on mostly due to hunting and escape abilities.

Lots of morphs would be disadvantaged due to lack of camouflage from our selective breeding, but leucism / melanistic creatures survive just fine naturally, as can strangely patterned animals. That does not effect mobility issues.

To be fair I also think brachycephalic dogs and cats (bulldogs, pugs, persian cats, etc) should not be bred nor would I own one. I also shy away from most "purebreds" for that reason in mammals at least. Golden Retrievers get cancer, boxers have heart issues, all doodles have a high chance for allergies... any highly modified genetic creature is bound to have problems when they have been tampered with to achieve a standard.

I'll take my mutts

[MD_Pythons]

I agree, it's true that certain dog breeds have physical characteristics that result in Ill health and the breeding of those animals is also unethical.

However, in my opinion those characteristics are not as debilitating as a genetic neurological disorder causing poor coordination and poor motor control.

There is a common perception in society that reptiles are worth less than mammalian pets. If a dog breed carried a genetic neurological disorder that caused poor balance and poor motor control there would be uproar amongst the general population. I believe society should see reptiles on par with mammallian pets and consider the propagation of debilitating genetic disorders as equally bad for all of them.

The problem though arises in how far that should go. What should be considered a debilitating condition and what should be considered acceptable? It comes down to personal opinion. Personally I have an albino snake which some people may believe is a debilitating condition due to light sensitivity etc.

I recently saw a video about a guy breeding ball pythons with no heat pits. To me that is unethical because the animal is in effect disabled and unable to function properly. I see the Spider gene in the same light.

But I'm just one guy and this is my opinion.

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i've never heard of anyone breeding BPs without heat pits, could you share the video? I always heard things like "BP breeders intentionally breed snakes without eyes" but I could never find anyone doing anything of the sort.

[redshepherd]

However, in my opinion those characteristics are not as debilitating as a genetic neurological disorder causing poor coordination and poor motor control.
What should be considered a debilitating condition and what should be considered acceptable? It comes down to personal opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts! Yeah, this is basically it, personal opinion. I personally don't see lack of motor control but with no pain to be necessarily more unethical than breeding for dogs who literally can't breathe enough to perform regular activities of its species, or when a large percentage suffer acute pain throughout their lives from physical injuries/displasia.

Both are technically debilitating to the animal in order to function in everyday life. (And I personally see the dog's issues as worse)

[Valyrian]

As cool as they look I also could not purchase one knowing that the gene is connected with a defect. Yes, they do fine in captivity, but the wobble is enough of a problem that it would not be viable in the wild - survival of the fittest - we can tease the gene out of them in controlled breeding, but in nature it would never pass on mostly due to hunting and escape abilities.

Lots of morphs would be disadvantaged due to lack of camouflage from our selective breeding, but leucism / melanistic creatures survive just fine naturally, as can strangely patterned animals. That does not effect mobility issues.

To be fair I also think brachycephalic dogs and cats (bulldogs, pugs, persian cats, etc) should not be bred nor would I own one. I also shy away from most "purebreds" for that reason in mammals at least. Golden Retrievers get cancer, boxers have heart issues, all doodles have a high chance for allergies... any highly modified genetic creature is bound to have problems when they have been tampered with to achieve a standard.

I'll take my mutts

Mutts live longer because of that too

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