Grrrr....FB groups!

[tttaylorrr]

The group that kicked out Justin K.

oh, i'm sure they're a wonderful collection of super knowledgeable people. let's see what they have to say:

When I mentioned our forum to some people needing help, one of "those" people had the nerve to badmouth this forum, calling us all "nice" but outdated oldies that are all about "fluff and butterflies" while promoting outdated practices that endanger the snakes.

Uh..right.

i joined this hobby 3 years ago; i don't think i'm old.

and marshmallow fluff and butterflies are nice soOoOoOo...i like that part. lol.

[zina10]

yep, the narcissistic, toxic relationships that fester within the walls of Facebook. Lol. I’ve never been in any snake group, but all of Facebook has these types of people, who are usually the most active Facebook members it seems. Again, good riddance to that dump, and most “social media” sites. Full of trash opinions and very little intelligent discussion.

I still say, you can make it tolerable

I do like the business pages that keep me up to date, I like the "fan" pages, for example there is a Desert Ghost Ball Python group that I really like. Lots of pictures and great people. I like sharing with my friends and family, but again, my friends list is very VERY small. And I use all privacy settings there are.

Twitter, snapchat or what all the others may be I do not use. Facebook I use to keep up with interests and close friends/family.

There is a lot of "Bs" on Facebook as well, but I just ignore it. And that particular Ball Python group is the only one I've come across that is SO toxic and nasty, that I left on my own in a hurry. They didn't even have time to kick me out, LOL !!!

[Momokahn]

I divorced Facebook years ago and couldn't be happier. Got tired of kids fresh out of diapers and adults that should be in diapers preaching wild a$$ guesses as gospel in all things in life.

[IsmQui718]

I’ve found this forum to be an invaluable source of information. Seems that many here used to keep fish before jumping into BP. I kept angelfish, discus and high end goldfish before giving that up (20+ years later). Water changes can be very time consuming.

Justin banned from a FB page??????? That’s nuts. That’s Facebook for you.


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[Zincubus]

I’ve found this forum to be an invaluable source of information. Seems that many here used to keep fish before jumping into BP. I kept angelfish, discus and high end goldfish before giving that up (20+ years later). Water changes can be very time consuming.

Justin banned from a FB page??????? That’s nuts. That’s Facebook for you.


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Hello
Fellow fish keeper ( and snake keeper ?)




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[Regius_049]

All the fb groups either swing from one extreme or the other, if you know what I mean. Either people who provide bioactive 5 foot enclosures for their one hatchling ball python are praised, or of course the other extreme being all ball pythons should only live in tubs as hides and shouldn't be provided with anything else.

While I'm glad this forum is chill about everything in between for caring properly for a snake as long as it is healthy and husbandry is met.

I am not a member of any ball python specific groups as ball pythons are a comparatively small fraction of my collection and not a primary personal interest of mine within the "reptile hobby", however obviously I do post here. Like redshepherd, I have also noticed this phenomena of "extremes", which it seems is not limited to ball python husbandry. We see it in politics all the time in an effort to separate oneself or an ideology from others/the pack and become more visible.

In this case, you see the "bioactive 5 foot enclosures" mentality as almost a retort to the mantra of "ball pythons should only live in tubs as hides and shouldn't be provided with anything else". There is a group on Facebook I believe I have mentioned before called "Advancing Reptile Husbandry", which ascribes to the large, naturalist setup ideology. I like this group because I like the idea of advancing captive husbandry in principle and indeed one of their supposed tenets is: move reptile husbandry forward using research and science, not anecdote and assumption. While I still think it is a good group overall and there is plethora of beneficial information to be found there, there are posts and assertions which, in my opinion, are counter-productive and based more on gut-feeling than anything resembling biology or science.

The classic posts I see all the time are: (1) here is a picture of my ball python basking under a UV light and not in it's plastic hide 125% of time, clearly it must be defective lolol, or (2) Why are your leopard geckos on paper towels? Don't you know as a group, we frown upon this practice? There is information of merit in these posts, but it is heavily shrouded in judgement and poor rhetoric. More constructive posts might be: (A) I have noticed after providing UV light, my ball python spends X% amount more time outside of its hides, basking, exploring, etc. I also noticed a positive/negative growth rate, feeding response, etc. (B) Leopard geckos are a somewhat scent-based species and providing a more permanent substrate / bottom can make the animal feel less stressed and more secure by keeping it's scent marking in tact. My other concern with this obsession with naturalistic enclosures is the apparent lack of quarantine and health monitoring on newly acquired species. You see people all the time putting newly acquired species directly into planted setups with soil-type substrates. It is no secret that this style of setup makes monitoring for health issues, mites, or collecting a good fecal sample much more difficult. Additionally, if you come down with a health issue, you often have to tear down an expensive setup. If you wish to have this style setup, it should be a no-brainer for the process to follow the general flow of:

(1) Acquisition -> (2) Quarantine on paper towels -> health screening/tests or veterinary check - (4) move into "final" enclosure

As I have said before, I am a believer in the larger, more natural setup, but minimal/laboratory setups absolutely have their place. Additionally, when you throw out a cage size recommendation, you should have a better rationale than "snakes need big cages". I am happy to encourage the larger setup, but I have to also realize that not everyone can devote 1/4 of a room to a single snake. Myself included. There has to be some balance. I generally advocate for the 4' x 2' x 1-2' enclosure for a variety of reasons: (1) They are commercially available and not extreme in price due to how plastic sheets are generally cut on the manufacturer end, (2) They are a balance of larger, but also within reason that the average keeper can swallow the bill and space requirement, (3) Given the size of your typical ball python, they allow for relatively easy humidity control as well as provide a minimum of 3 "temperature zones" a snake can loosely coil up in to allow them to naturally thermoregulate. This generally consists of the "warm end", "cool end", and an in-between zone. The additional length gives the snake space to stretch out and higher height (compared to many commercial tubs) gives them space to parascope, climb to a limited degree, and allow for the natural biological motions involved in swallowing food.