Concerned about corkscrewing in a spider PT. 2

[Reptilius]

After following this thread from when it was still Part 1, i support Zina in what has been said.

I would personally not give it to someone else, to me that is like passing the buck so to speak.

I would try to quarantine it seperately from the snakes I already have in quarantine.

If after 3 months the condition has not improved, I would then euthanize the animal.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[cchardwick]

Personally I would only euthanize if the animal was sick and suffering to the point where death was imminent, such as not eating from extreme old age or literally falling apart losing scales, etc... I'm sure there are plenty of people who would take a snake like this in as a pet, especially for free. Even with all it's quirks I'm sure it could live a long life. I've gotten used to all my spider wobbles, doesn't bother me at all, they are still beautiful creatures.

[Caali]

I agree with Zina and Reptilius for the most part but I'd like to add one thing.
Boas and pythons can both be affected by IBD. They can have this illness for years without displaying any symptoms (with pythons that is often not the case) but once they start to exhibit the symptoms they die rather quick.
What I'm trying to say is: If the snake survives for 3 more months in quarantine, I think it's highly unlikely that it's IBD. If the snake doesn't die from the damage created by the illness, he'll likely starve himself to death (if he is really ill).
Whether you euthanise the animal after these three months is absolutely your decision to make. You're the one closest to the animal. You can see how the animal is progressing or regressing. Just please note that I doubt he can survive three more months if his symptoms are caused by IBD.

I also have a Bumblebee ball python. All ball pythons with the Spider gene have at least a bit of the wobble. There is not even one that is absolutely not affected by the gene. When I got mine, he was obviously stressed and I saw him wobbeling and once even doing a corkscrew. I was very worried and even suspected IBD. In the end he was just stressed.
As of now I can't even notice a wobble. There has to be one but I cannot see it. Not when I feed him, not when he had to move enclosures (from the quarantine box to his enclosure). He is also turning 1 year at the end of this month.
The symptoms you describe sound like a bit more than the Spider wobble but as Zina said it is still possible (even if it's unlikely) that it is just the Spider wobble connected to stress.

[artgecko]

This is such a tough call to make. Personally, I won't even sell / rehome snakes I have that aren't feeding well for me, so I'd probably not rehome this guy unless the person knew full well what they were getting into and agreed to get the snake vet care or euthanize if needed.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably wait another week or 2 and if the snake does not improve and is showing signs as you stated (almost drowning, unable to stop moving, crawling upside down, etc.) I would euthanize it. Snakes are simple creatures with simple needs... They eat, poop, move around, hide, etc.. But IMO if the snake cannot at least control its' body enough to move around, to hide, to do basic crawling, then yes, I do believe it effects the quality of life especially if these issues are on-going (not momentary lapses). Moving this way could lead to other health issues, wounds, etc. and just discomfort / pain (I'm sure snake's spines aren't meant to have the pressure of all their weight on them while moving, etc.).

You stated that the snake hasn't eaten yet for you... If you've only had him a week, that is not uncommon. I typically wait at least 1 week to attempt to feed when I get new snakes. I'd agree with the others about giving it a much smaller / shallower bowl, wait it out a couple more weeks if you can, attempt a feed, and see what happens, then make a call one way or another.

I do not envy you your choice, but in the end, if it is sparing the snake physical suffering, euthanizing is not a bad choice IMO. If my cat (or other animals) were exhibiting the same behaviors as you state, I'd not hesitate to have them euthanized to spare them suffering.

[Helium]

He has not eaten for me and I have NOT attempted to feed him. His owner said he has not ate in a few months.

As much as I don't want to, I will hang on to him for the time being I suppose. I absolutely despise watching a snake move like this, even general corkscrewing makes me uncomfortable but for the sake of the snake I will not move him again and I know if it comes down to it I can and will make the decision on what happens to him.

Atleast if I keep him I can monitor his condition and have a better chance to see if it is something more.

Thanks for all the info everyone, I will be doing what I can to give him a simple, stress free life, for as long as he may be around. For now, I will monitor him daily and continue to practice strict quarantine procedures for him and the other snakes I got with him. Depending on how he does over the next week will determine my next move.

[wolfy-hound]

Why do you say he hasn't eaten for you if you haven't attempted to feed him? Do you mean you have offered food but not tried assisted/forced feeding him?

The video is pretty close to "moderate" spider corkscrewing. If he does that on occasion, but he eats and can move himself around the cage, he may live a fine life as a pet. Having parts of the body upside down isn't unusual for spiders, honestly. He's not likely to drown himself in a waterdish either. I've had perfectly healthy BPs decide to sit in the waterdish under water for no reason other than they felt like it. They never drowned themselves. They do have a fairly low O2 requirement.

It is all up to you, as his owner though to judge quality of life. If you feel he's suffering, than euthanasia is a viable option. If you feel like he's just exceptionally whacko in the spider universe, he might be fine for many years.

It's unfair to compare a BP to a mammal like a cat also. A cat would only do this with severe neurological issues, while young BPs can corkscrew and stargaze just to freak out their owners so repeated episodes of the same movements are not "harmful" in themselves and as posted above, the snake has been healthy to this point, eating and growing just fine.

Just my $0.02 as always

[eldhosepp123]

It may be a genetic problem.Generally spider combos have such a problem called wobbling. I think it won't be changed.

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[CALM Pythons]

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