The allure of breeding...

[Craiga 01453]

First off, let me start by saying this is a question coming solely from curiosity and not a dig on anybody, since I myself fall into this category...

I've wondered since getting back into this hobby what the allure to breeding is. It seems like an extrodinarily high number of people who keep snakes have an interest in breeding, or are already breeding on some level.

Now I may be wrong, but it seems like the number is high when you look at it in comparison to people breeding other pets. I know plenty of people with other pets, and pretty much none ever talk about breeding their cat, dog, rabbit, guinea pig, ferret, fish, etc... It seems like there are countless people who are literally brand new to the hobby saying things like "I've had my beep for three weeks and love her so much. I want to start breeding, what should I pair with her?" or "Thinking about getting a BP or two, what morphs breed well together?" I've never heard somebody say "I've had my ferret (or other insert pet here) for a month and want to get another and breed them."

However, spend a little time talking to a few people who keep snakes as pets, and breeding almost always inevitably makes it's way into the conversation.

Another example would be time spent in pet stores. In all the time I've spent in pets stores, shopping for supplies, killing time looking at animals, etc... I've never overheard a conversation about somebody potentially breeding their new pet...except in the reptile section. And it has always been snakes with one exception when a guy was discussing breeding beasties.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've thought about it, discussed it, etc... so I'm certainly understanding of wanting to breed snakes. I have since decided against it, for the forseeable futire anyway...but what is the allure with snakes versus other pets??

Anybody willing to throw their two cents in please feel free, as this is just a curious thought I've had...

[BluuWolf]

I can only speak to my own experience, and I am a bit of an exception sense I am a person that speaks like that about other pets

I’ve looked into being an animal breeder in my future before (Dogs specifically) and have worked in many a breeding kennel. Me and my friends talk a lot about what our animals babies would look like, although we don’t ever actually breed them because there are already lots of mixed breeds without homes and if rather not add to that lol

So with snakes I naturally gravitated to breeding as well, but if I had to guess I’d think more people go for it because not the ease of care for the babies is typically a lot less then that for a dog or cat and the genetics with snakes are far more interesting then with mammals.

The way snakes mix to make such crazy and beautiful combos is absolutely beautiful, whereas with something like a dog the outcome is very predictable. Some mixed breeds you can get something different but that’s not what people who purposefully breed go for. And while breeding dogs is a pretty huge commitment with having to care for the puppies for a long time and then it’s pretty hard to find homes for them. With snakes it is a bit easier to find homes for the babies and it’s not unheard of to keep them all in the end, you for sure couldn’t do that with a litter of pups XD

As I said I can only speak for myself but that’s what first came to mind when I read the question lol It’s the genetics and love for snakes that does it for me


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[Godzilla78]

It took me 2 years of owning a ball python before I wanted more than 1. As soon as I had several snakes, I began wanting to buy/sell/breed them.
I became obsessed... lol. Maybe I should have just stuck with having one snake!


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[Stewart_Reptiles]

One word MUTATIONS, well at least to me.

If I was to breed my 2 dogs I would get more of the same unless I want to make mutts, and the rest goes for most animals, sure there are a few mutations in other animal species, but nothing like in BP.

With BP it is an unlimited world of possibilities (and challenge) for me and then you had the genetic factor which is fascinating. To me the are living art.

Thing is there are as many people getting into breeding snakes than there are dropping out because they are in without a true passion, without the right reasons and without a plan.

[rufretic]

I agree with Debrah 100%. The excitement of creating new combinations of morphs is unmatched in any other breeding compared to ball pythons. I got into breeding them because I love that I can be creative and try to make new combos that have never been seen before. It involves a lot of planning and thinking outside the box, not just copying what’s already out there. This is only my second year breeding and I already have the possibility of creating many worlds firsts this year. It is a very exciting hobby.

One other reason I think a lot of people that wouldn’t typically breed other animals but decide to try ball pythons is that there are a lot of high dollar morphs that people want but can’t afford and so they decide to try breeding to make whatever combo they want at a lower total cost. Not sure that it always works out that way because by the time you grow out the breeders and make the morph you want, even if you get it on the first try which isn’t guaranteed, it’s been three years before you get that combo you wanted and odds are the price has come down to less than what you paid for the breeders plus all the food expenses, you would of been better off just waiting the 3 years and then buying the combo you want.

And then of course the people that see dollar signs and think they are going to get rich. These are typically the ones that don’t last very long in this hobby because it definitely isn’t a get rich fast kind of hobby.

[Tigerhawk]

I got into breeding. Because I like the challenge of making something that I really like. There is just something about seeing a clutch of eggs and then waiting for them to hatch. It’s like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. Sure I could save my money and buy what I want. But what’s the fun in that?

[WastelandExotics]

I have to agree that mutations are the draw for most people that breed these guys (this definitely includes myself as I've always been fascinated with genetics) but I also have to say that space and cost are probably a huge factor too.

When you compare something like cat or dog breeding (the proper way) to reptile breeding, reptile breeding has a clear advantage financially and as far as accessibility goes. Here's what I mean:

Let's say you breed some German Shepherds because the breed has always interested you. There isn't really a lot of variation with the breed as far as coloring goes. As far as I know, you're breeding for the classic look, black or white so a whopping 3 variations.

You get yourself two dogs, each one of them costing you food daily (eating between 300g-500g per day) and medical checks as needed for the mother. And when they do have a litter, that food price is going to go WAY up when the pups start weaning. And, if you're going to do things right, you have to get those puppies vaccines. Let's say momma dog has 5 pups. You have to at least get the pups their first round of shots before rehoming and physical exams.

So, you're spending:
- between $30-$60 a month for food for two adult dogs
- physical exams for Mom (at least one to make sure she's fit for breeding)
- who knows how much food on puppies when they wean
- first round of puppy shots = roughly $40/pup. So $200 give or take for all the puppies
- physical exam for each of the puppies [because most vets won't immunize without a basic physical exam) = $25/pup (and that's being extremely conservative) so $125 for all pups

So, if you produce one litter of puppies "properly", you're going to be spending about $400-$600 at the bare minimum (which I'm sure any breeder will tell you is still a horrifically conservative number as it's not including toys, enrichment items, pre and post natal things for mom, advertising, etc). AND that's if you rehome all the pups before the second round of shots is needed. Also, not even going to get into having 5 rambunctious little puppies causing god knows what kind of damage to your house in the process of rearing them (pee, poo, chewing on stuff, you get the picture).

With reptiles, especially BPs, it costs a fraction of that, especially if you source your own feeders. If I were to produce a clutch right now, I could probably do it for under $100 all said and done, most of which would be spent on an incubator, which I don't have at the moment. I do breed my own mice and I have all the caging already so that wouldn't really factor into the cost. Also, you don't have to worry about property damage as they're content in their tubs.

And the space you need to house 7 snakes =/= housing 7 dogs, just saying.

Aaaaannnnddd another thing: reptile breeding doesn't seem as "stuffy" as the other types of breeding. There is no AKC registration or organization regulating "the standard" for morphs or anything else. Hell, they even have an organization regulating "the standard" for mice and rats [AFRMA]. So, there isn't a lot of pressure on breeders to conform to a standard when producing clutches, which makes for more independence, experimentation and diversion from what would be considered "the standard" or norm. There just seems to be a lot more freedom in reptile breeding imho.

TL;DR Reasons people prefer breeding ball pythons/reptiles over domestic, "normal" pets:
- Mutations
- Cost to breed
- Cost to keep
- Space required to house a breeding group
- No "standard"

[Alicia]

For ball pythons I'd also mostly go with saying morphs, and the sort of roll the dice feeling of pairing animals for a specific combo. That's why I first paired two BPs, and that's why I continue to breed BPs. . . . That and cute babies.

Another thing that may well come into play -- propagation been part of the culture of snake keeping since keepers realized it was possible to make more snakes. If you ever paw through older books on snake keeping, a lot of them put a tremendous emphasis on breeding, of all species. That's part of our collective snaking history, and definitely still threaded through the hobby today.

[Rvnhawk]

I come from it from a different aspect. I bred and showed show rabbits, cavies (Guinea pigs) and show chickens, and I did show quality Betta Splendens. I also dabbled in show line fancy guppies too. I bred leopard geckos for a bit too. For me, when I get into breeding, it would be for the best quality, representative of the morphs. And being a gambler, I love the gamble of the odds of the outcomes. If fancy rats were more widespread in the US, I’d be breeding to improve my lines and showing them too.

To the person above who mentions GSD, there are more varieties than the “classic” look, black and white. That classic look has a wide variety of actual colors/shades and whether there is an actual saddle, etc. plus there are more colors than just the Black and Tan in what you consider the “classic” look. (I have a black GSD and her littermates included sables and dark agoutis without the classic saddles.)


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[Godzilla78]

Yes, 1000s of mutations... it’s like collecting coins or baseball cards, except you can breed them, and make more! And they are alive! Such an awesome hobby.


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