Dexter Regurgitated Rats Twice This Month

[Aedryan Methyus]

I've been concerned about whether or not he has been drinking the water, but I have been medicating his water for about 23 days now, so he must be drinking it or he would be showing obvious signs of dehydration or be dead by now, wouldn't he? He looks and acts fine other than looking thin. I'm sooo mad at myself for feeding him 2 more times after the first time he regurgitated! I'm still holding on to hope that his problems were just caused by the temperature/humidity/cold draft problems I was having in my snake room at the time this all started. It's seems pretty obvious to me that that must have been what caused my Ball Python's respiratory infection. Either way, Dexter is getting dewormed at the vet to be safe...

[Sauzo]

I didnt read all 8 pages of this but the last post, i wouldnt just throw deworming meds at him unless you know for a fact he has worms. He obviously is already having issues keeping food down. Generally, meds for reptiles are harsh and that could intensify his issues. You need to find out why he isnt able to hold down food and the explosive pooping. It almost sounds like a blockage of some sorts. He is wanting to eat it sounds like so i would say i dont think its a parasite issue, otherwise he would have a loss of appetite too.

Like i said, i am leaning towards a blockage most likely due to dehydration as you said he did poop. Eating uses a LOT of liquid for digestion so if he is already dehydrated, he possibly wouldnt be able to completely digest the food. I would drop him down to a size or two smaller in food to start with and i would give him unflavored Pedialyte. Not Gatorade or Powerade like some people say lol. You want no sugar or additives. I would also inject his food with pedialyte so you know for sure he is getting liquids. The explosive poop sounds like he is 'dry' and the urates are just dried out inside him creating blockage/plug and he has to squeeze really hard to 'shoot' it out. It is also a reason snakes can get prolapse. Having to push so hard to poop/pee it pops out part of their intestine.

But like i said, if the snake is acting normal and has an appetite, i would check into the hydration. Does he have any wrinkles or stuff? Pat for example got wrinkles around his neck which i am still not sure if it was the shed or partial dehydration. I sprayed him a lot and put elevated water bowls right next to him and he started drinking a LOT and now is filled back out. I never had the issue with the boas or anyone else but they werent shy and GTPs are prone to getting dehydrated.

If you are concerned about worms, get a fecal done first to confirm deworming is needed. It's like when i took Harley into the vet thinking she had an RI again and the vet checked her out and thought she was fine. She thinks the reason my beardie sits with partial open mouth is 1) its normal for beardies to sometimes go derpy and sit with a cracked open mouth and 2) Harley is really overweight(she weighs in at about 700g and is about 15 inches long). So since reptiles dont have diaphragms, they have to constrict their ribs to force the air out of their lungs. So with all the extra weight Harley is packing, it makes it harder for her to breath. If your vet is worth their salt, they wont just throw antibiotics at your reptile and will do a fecal or culture first to find out what is up.

But anyways, nothing wrong with getting a fecal done or culture done but do those first before throwing meds at your snake blindly.

Here is Harley in all her plump glory. No she isnt pregnant. She already laid 2 clutches of infertile eggs last summer lol.

[hilabeans]

It's like when i took Harley into the vet thinking she had an RI again and the vet checked her out and thought she was fine. She thinks the reason my beardie sits with partial open mouth is 1) its normal for beardies to sometimes go derpy and sit with a cracked open mouth and 2) Harley is really overweight(she weighs in at about 700g and is about 15 inches long). So since reptiles dont have diaphragms, they have to constrict their ribs to force the air out of their lungs. So with all the extra weight Harley is packing, it makes it harder for her to breath. If your vet is worth their salt, they wont just throw antibiotics at your reptile and will do a fecal or culture first to find out what is up.

But anyways, nothing wrong with getting a fecal done or culture done but do those first before throwing meds at your snake blindly.

Here is Harley in all her plump glory. No she isnt pregnant. She already laid 2 clutches of infertile eggs last summer lol.

At the risk of temporarily derailing this thread, my Nigel gaps periodically. Perfectly normal part of a Beardie's thermoregulating as it releases excess heat. If husbandry is perfect, and unless other symptoms are present, gaping alone is nothing to worry about.

Plus it's darn cute:




Incidentally, Nigel wants me to tell Harley he said "hayyyy pretty lady!". Little dude's going thru puberty.



Ok, back to Dexter! Watching intently to see what the vet says. Best wishes are with you and your gang.

[Aedryan Methyus]

I didnt read all 8 pages of this but the last post, i wouldnt just throw deworming meds at him unless you know for a fact he has worms. He obviously is already having issues keeping food down. Generally, meds for reptiles are harsh and that could intensify his issues. You need to find out why he isnt able to hold down food and the explosive pooping. It almost sounds like a blockage of some sorts. He is wanting to eat it sounds like so i would say i dont think its a parasite issue, otherwise he would have a loss of appetite too.

Like i said, i am leaning towards a blockage most likely due to dehydration as you said he did poop. Eating uses a LOT of liquid for digestion so if he is already dehydrated, he possibly wouldnt be able to completely digest the food. I would drop him down to a size or two smaller in food to start with and i would give him unflavored Pedialyte. Not Gatorade or Powerade like some people say lol. You want no sugar or additives. I would also inject his food with pedialyte so you know for sure he is getting liquids. The explosive poop sounds like he is 'dry' and the urates are just dried out inside him creating blockage/plug and he has to squeeze really hard to 'shoot' it out. It is also a reason snakes can get prolapse. Having to push so hard to poop/pee it pops out part of their intestine.

But like i said, if the snake is acting normal and has an appetite, i would check into the hydration. Does he have any wrinkles or stuff? Pat for example got wrinkles around his neck which i am still not sure if it was the shed or partial dehydration. I sprayed him a lot and put elevated water bowls right next to him and he started drinking a LOT and now is filled back out. I never had the issue with the boas or anyone else but they werent shy and GTPs are prone to getting dehydrated.

If you are concerned about worms, get a fecal done first to confirm deworming is needed. It's like when i took Harley into the vet thinking she had an RI again and the vet checked her out and thought she was fine. She thinks the reason my beardie sits with partial open mouth is 1) its normal for beardies to sometimes go derpy and sit with a cracked open mouth and 2) Harley is really overweight(she weighs in at about 700g and is about 15 inches long). So since reptiles dont have diaphragms, they have to constrict their ribs to force the air out of their lungs. So with all the extra weight Harley is packing, it makes it harder for her to breath. If your vet is worth their salt, they wont just throw antibiotics at your reptile and will do a fecal or culture first to find out what is up.

But anyways, nothing wrong with getting a fecal done or culture done but do those first before throwing meds at your snake blindly.

Here is Harley in all her plump glory. No she isnt pregnant. She already laid 2 clutches of infertile eggs last summer lol.

I have to agree with you in thinking that this probably isn't a parasite issue... So, it probably isn't a great idea to just have the vet do a broad range deworming. The problem with getting a fecal done is, he just emptied out a few weeks ago and hasn't kept a meal down since. So, I don't know if he has anything in there to be flushed out in order to get a sample... Just in case you aren't familiar with how slow Blood's metabolisms are, though, it is perfectly normal for them to explode in their enclosures like a rhinoceros once they finally go, because it's not unusual for them to retain it for months and even over a year in some cases. In Dexter's case, i've had him since 5/10/17. Since then he has defecated on 9/14/17, 10/23/17, 12/09/17 (massive!) and 12/26 (just a little)...

I strongly feel that due to how my temps and humidity were all over the place in combination with the drafts I discovered in my snake room (directly behind the rack Dexter is in) once it got cold, he probably wasn't properly digesting the last few meals he had eaten before he started regurgitating and that could be why he was looking so bloated before he finally emptied out? Also, I had been keeping the hot sides only around 82 - 84 degrees for my Bloods, because that seemed to be where they liked it. During the warmer months if I turned it up even one degree they would all be cramming to the front of their tubs and soaking in their water dishes 24/7. Now, I have their hot sides running around 85 - 87 degrees and they seem to be fine with it. So, I strongly feel this is/was some sort of digestive problem. What do you guys think? Does my thinking sound logical here?

Other than looking thin and needing to keep a few meals down, Dexter is looking great and is acting perfectly fine. He is bright and pretty and silky smooth and no signs of being lethargic or dehydrated. He pee'd last night and when I pulled him out to put him in a fresh clean tub he was being such a sweetheart and crawling around all over me and he acted like he didn't even want to go back in his tub. He kept crawling back out, actually and sticking his head up over the top of his tub looking at me. After I pushed his tub back in he was sorta pacing at the front of the tub for a bit. I felt like he was hungry and wanting to eat. Sooo... Tomorrow is his Dr. appointment and i'm not sure what to do. That should be the vet's job to figure out, though... Since I have to take 2 snakes and the office visit alone is going to be $100.00 I am going to be on an extremely limited budget at the vet. Especially, since the space heater in my snake room decided to stop working today now too on top of everything else that has been going wrong. There went another unexpected $75.00 replacing that today! I just can't catch a break lately... The Ball Python with the RI is definitely going to be getting antibiotics, but what do you guys think the cheapest and most feasible course of action should be for Dexter? I truly don't feel like this is a parasite issue... I'm definitely going to take the Nutribac with me, so I can make sure he gets a good dose of that tubed into him. What do you guys recommend?

[zina10]

Let us know how it went...

Hope you got good news, good meds and that your babies will be on the mend in no time !

[Sauzo]

Personally, like you said, i think it was a lack of heat that caused the regurg. Basically, the food just rotted in his gut. It's your call but me personally, i wouldnt take the blood in to the vet. The only thing the vet could do that would give answers would be a fecal or blood work. Blood work is expensive. I think when i had Harley's blood work done, it cost me around $150 or $200. Fecal floats are cheap. My vet charges like $30 for one. If you are a regular at the vet, he/she might work with you on the price if you explain you're in a bind. When i took Rosey in for her sinus infection, it came at the worst possible time for cash. I told my vet and she basically just charged me for the meds and office visit and gave me a pass on the culture of the liquid in her nose.

But anyways, i would for sure take the BP in as you said it clearly has an RI. But like i said, the blood, i would probably pass on it and raise the temps like you did and give him at least 2 weeks before trying to feed him again. Regurg is really hard on their system and after that, he will need time to rebuild his stomach acid supply, otherwise he could just regurg again and lose even more stomach acid and fluids. And i would mix in some unflavored pedialyte into his water which will help replenish electrolytes and stuff he lost from puking so much.

[zina10]

I most respectfully disagree..

If it had been one regurge, I could see waiting it out...

But we are talking about 3 regurges in a row. The last one AFTER a long break and nutribac.

Could it all still be related to the drafts and cold ? Perhaps. But 3 regurges in a row would make me nervous enough to not waste anymore time and see the vet stat. If nothing else, to at least rule out some stuff, and possibly get some treatment done (Nutribac paste??)

I know the timing is bad, and Vet visits can get expensive. However, 3 regurges can set the snake up for a chronic cycle that doesn't end well. Not even just from the original cause, but simply from the damage that is done to its system.

Ultimately, its always up to the owner, though. They know their snake best and they know how far they can take it, financially.

I do hope it all ends well !!

[Aedryan Methyus]

Well... I just got home from the vet... He checked Dexter over real good from top to bottom and he definitely isn't dehydrated. So, that's good news! I could tell he wasn't... So, he has obviously been drinking the Nutribac infused water that i've been giving him, which is also good news. I had him help me syringe a nice 1 gram dose of the Nutribac down him, though. The vet recommended deworming him just for good measure... I told him how some of you advised against it, but he still sent me home with 3 rounds of pannacur, which I will need to administer orally over the next 3 days... Fun fun! Other than that, he recommended that I try to feed him a small meal in 2 weeks and I will also continue the Nutribac water treatment...

I told the vet that little Dexter should get a rat flavored sucker for being such a good boy at his first visit to the doctors... lol I will post about Misty in the other thread I have going for her...

OHHH! I totally forgot to mention that the vet agreed completely that Dexter's problem was most likely brought on by the temperature and/or draft problems I was having. He said that cold drafts and temperatures being too low is the #1 cause for snakes regurgitating...

[Sauzo]

Well... I just got home from the vet... He checked Dexter over real good from top to bottom and he definitely isn't dehydrated. So, that's good news! I could tell he wasn't... So, he has obviously been drinking the Nutribac infused water that i've been giving him, which is also good news. I had him help me syringe a nice 1 gram dose of the Nutribac down him, though. The vet recommended deworming him just for good measure... I told him how some of you advised against it, but he still sent me home with 3 rounds of pannacur, which I will need to administer orally over the next 3 days... Fun fun! Other than that, he recommended that I try to feed him a small meal in 2 weeks and I will also continue the Nutribac water treatment...

I told the vet that little Dexter should get a rat flavored sucker for being such a good boy at his first visit to the doctors... lol I will post about Misty in the other thread I have going for her...

OHHH! I totally forgot to mention that the vet agreed completely that Dexter's problem was most likely brought on by the temperature and/or draft problems I was having. He said that cold drafts and temperatures being too low is the #1 cause for snakes regurgitating...

I figured it was from the draft and improper temps. If kept too cold, the first regurg would be from the cold. The second regurg assuming you didnt wait 2-4 weeks to try and feed again, could have been from the cold+not enough time to build up the supply of stomach acids. Third regurg, well cold+2 times of not being given enough time to build up stomach acid again would be pretty obvious lol.

I personally disagree with throwing Panacur at the snake without even taking a fecal but thats just me. I;m not exactly sure if Panacur dehydrates reptiles like Baytril does but i would be sure to mix in pedialyte along with the nutribac so he doesnt get dehydrated assuming Panacur does dehydrate. If not, just stick to the nutribac then.

One he is done with the Panacur, i would be sure to feed on the smaller side for the next 4-5 feedings. Also be sure to raise the temps in the cage to speed up the snakes metabolism and help him get the Panacur through him. I'm sure your vet told you all this but figure just in case

BTW what did the vet give you for the BP RI? Fortaz? And have fun with the injections lol. I was always paranoid that i was going to stick the needle in too far with Harley and Rosey.

[Aedryan Methyus]

I figured it was from the draft and improper temps. If kept too cold, the first regurg would be from the cold. The second regurg assuming you didnt wait 2-4 weeks to try and feed again, could have been from the cold+not enough time to build up the supply of stomach acids. Third regurg, well cold+2 times of not being given enough time to build up stomach acid again would be pretty obvious lol.

That has been my thought exactly! I will be giving him the Panacur orally, not injections. The vet told me to bring in a fecal sample next time he goes...

For the Ball Python, he brought in a vitamins/Gentocin antibiotic injection and showed me how to give the injections. He sent me home with 6 more injections and I will have to inject her once every 3 days for the next 18 days... I'm not looking forward to having to do that, but I have no choice, but to put my big boy panties on, man up and do it! As mentioned in Dexter's thread, I will have to administer his medicine orally, So, on the bright side, I will be gaining some really good experience treating these two...