Russian Rat Regurgitated

[hilabeans]

Ugh...I waited 1.5 weeks and offered again today. This time a very small mouse pink. And this time, a total refusal. He sniffed around but never struck. I tried enticing him a couple of different times before just leaving his mouse in there. It's been two hours and he hasn't touched it.

He usually eats twice a week, Wed & Sat. We haven't touched him or bothered him at all since his regurg, except for water changes. I don't want to over worry, but he's still so young and these guys are known to be such great eaters - could it be weather related? Or is he still traumatized from his last feeding?

Sooo...wait another week? Wait two weeks? Help me obi-wan bp.net, you're my only hope.

[redshepherd]

That is odd, I'm sorry you're dealing with this. :s

If he's not already, I'd move him into a completely sterile little tub (just a white paper towel, 1-2 hides, one water bowl) just in case, to keep a close eye on if anything weird happens.

I'd offer again in 5 days or so, just wait the full 2 weeks minimum after a regurge. You could just be offering too early.

Just in case I'll mention again, but I would make sure you're not offering the pinks too hot. The water should just be barely warm, not warm to hot. I honestly don't know why some people on the forum are recommending new keepers to heat f/t prey in HOT water... It should not be hot lol.

No way that it's weather related especially for such a tiny hatchling who barely ate, and that you're keeping your ambient temps steady... Mine hasn't missed a meal.

I hope your dude eats soon!

[MissterDog]

Just in case I'll mention again, but I would make sure you're not offering the pinks too hot. The water should just be barely warm, not warm to hot. I honestly don't know why some people on the forum are recommending new keepers to heat f/t prey in HOT water... It should not be hot lol.

I've been wondering this too. It's entirely possible to damage (too mushy or explode) or even cook your prey item when you place it in hot or the hottest your tap water can get off the bat, even if it was thawed in the fridge beforehand.

Anyways, I hope your boy eats for you again Hila! I'm agreeing with Redshepherd and just wait abit longer to give your little one more time to recover.

[hilabeans]

Thank you all. I used basically room temp water to thaw this last pink in. Not warm and nowhere near hot, just to be sure. I'll work on getting him into a new tub today and then offer again in 5 days.

I did weigh him yesterday and he's lost .3 grams. ☹️

[MissterDog]

Keep everyone posted! I'm unfamiliar with how much weight loss is considered worrisome for colubrids but hopefully Sylphie, Zina10 or Redshepherd can offer their insight on that!

Best of luck!

[zina10]

Well, I don't like to "disagree" with other members advice, but perhaps its not so much disagreement but a slightly different view.

I ALWAYS use "hot" water before offering f/t food items. If the rodent is even just slightly less then "very warm" , say room temp, hardly any of my snakes will even react to it.

That said, there IS such a thing as TO hot, for warming up f/t rodents. Of course there is.

It gets more tricky the smaller the rodent is. A large or medium rat can handle hotter temps before getting "questionable". If you use a nekkid little rat or mouse pinkie, you have to go about it slightly different.

Start out with a well thawed out rodent. I use cold water for a couple of hours.

After that, use slightly hotter then lukewarm water for about 5 minutes, then drain water and then hit it with hot water for about 5 minutes. Hot, as in hotter then just warm, but not burning hot !!!

The trick is to get them up to temperature a little slower then a larger rodent, and not leave them in that hot water for as long as a larger rodent. And of course, as everyone said, don't use water that is burning hot.

If you use barely luke or room temperature water, you won't get any but the most well established and "used to this" snake to go for that. Heat signature is one of the (big) ways to tell them this is "food". In time they get used to this type of feeding and not so picky about the exact temp or smell of the rodent. But a new/young snake can be trickier with that.

Those tiny food items also cool off rapidly. Sometimes on the way to the cage you already have a cold rodent. The wetness and air movement cools them fast.

I would try above method and wrap the wet pinky in a few sheets of paper towels as you carry it to the cage. It will dry it off and preserve the heat a bit longer. Then offer..

You can also hit it with a blow dryer near the cage, so you can offer quickly while rodent feels warm.

If you move him, then DO give him a few days to get settled before offering again.

[hilabeans]

If you move him, then DO give him a few days to get settled before offering again.

On my phone, so won't get to thoroughly read until I'm back online. But was going to go get supplies for a new, smaller ,"observation" tub while I'm out. Do you feel I should still move him into a small tub?

I felt like this last pinkie I offered was cooler than any I've offered before, but I was maybe over-correcting so as not to offer something too hot. I guess I'm totally questioning everything I ever did before, and should just do whatever I did originally because it always worked until the last big pinkie screwed everything up. He was always a champion eater until then.

Is the weight loss a big concern?

[zina10]

On my phone, so won't get to thoroughly read until I'm back online. But was going to go get supplies for a new, smaller ,"observation" tub while I'm out. Do you feel I should still move him into a small tub?

I felt like this last pinkie I offered was cooler than any I've offered before, but I was maybe over-correcting so as not to offer something too hot. I guess I'm totally questioning everything I ever did before, and should just do whatever I did originally because it always worked until the last big pinkie screwed everything up. He was always a champion eater until then.

Is the weight loss a big concern?

I do not believe its a big concern just yet. Of course, with young snakes, you have to be more diligent about everything and about monitoring and fixing problems.

Since the last meal WAS bigger then usual and regurged almost immediately, I tend to think size was the issue. The quick regurge is actually less strain on the body, then one after a few days. However, if there is a underlying problem that caused it, its still concerning.

Since you have had no other issues, before and then, I tend to think perhaps it was just to big.

You should follow your own instincts, but imho it would be worth ONE more try in his old enclosure. Since a move in itself can be stress. Of course a move can help in some instances, but like you said, he was fine before...so I do not think you have parasites to worry about, or that he feels unsafe in a larger enclosure.

Make sure your temps are right. They don't need high temps like Ball Pythons (actually, to high is harmful, they are from a cooler climate) but do offer a area where he can warm up a bit if he chooses so. Without raising the ambient to high. I'm sure you already know the parameters, though. Just double check them..

Warm that pinky up a bit more. NO water so hot that it hurts your hands, but it does need to give off a heat signature.

go SLOW with heating up. First defrost...then very warm water for 5 minutes, then hot (not burning) water for 5 minutes. Try to keep it warm while transporting to cage (wrap in paper towels), offer. If its slightly to cool, hit it with a hair dryer, again, don't cook it though !!

Its hard to give advice through the computer. What is hot to one person, is burning hot to another, or just very warm. Err on caution. You can always hit it with a blow dryer for a min, rather then cooking it in the water

Don't drive yourself to crazy just yet. Try the small meal and see what happens. If he takes it, NO stressing for a few days. But do observe for eventual issues.

Should there be another regurge (hopefully not) we will re-visit

Good luck !!

[hilabeans]

Sounds like a plan!!

My instincts tell me first rejected mouse was too big, and second rejected mouse was too cool. But since I'm new to this little one, and snakes in general, I am getting all bewildered and out of sorts about this hiccup. I'm going to wait 5 days and then offer a warm pink according to the above guidelines, as that's what always worked before, and just get this thing back on track. I really don't suspect anything other than the two mice being less than ideal for my little hatchling.

I'll update everyone next week - hopefully with a good report!

[hilabeans]

Well I wanna cry. He's still refusing. He's so tiny, I don't think he can keep up with this. I'm heartbroken and starting to freak out.