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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran jotay's Avatar
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    Can they be this smart??

    OK I have been watching this for the last month and I am now convinced that my BP can tell the sounds I make before I feed him.

    He is in a AP cage which I have sitting on four cinder blocks so I have storage underneath.
    I keep his small sterlite I use to keep him in for trips to the vet, cage cleaning etc. When not being used I keep the blow dryer, tongs and recordkeeping book in there. I also in a seperate container keep cleaning supplies underneath.
    I can reach underneath and grab the bucket of supplies and he wont stir. But let me reach underneath and grab the box and within seconds he is out of his hide and in strike mode waiting for his food.

    It' s like he knows the slight different noise they make.

    Does anyone else notice things in their bp's that make you think they are smarted then we think ?
    ~ Johanna ~ aka Jody

    "The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be measured by the way it's animals are treated"
    ~ Mahatma Gandhi~

  2. #2
    Registered User HelicopterPilot's Avatar
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    Yup. I guess its the low level noise you make by dragging the box across the floor before you pick it up. its possible and you say its happening ,so yes

  3. #3
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    Yes. My BPs are like that especially the one I've had since he was tiny. Even when my husband is holding Byron (and he handles him quite a lot too), Byron will stretch out towards me. He also comes up and "kisses" me on the lips or nose with his tongue. He also rubs his head against my cheek (sweet). My other BP, whom I've only had for three weeks (he's a rescue and was neglected by previous owners - at least they gave him to a rescue centre and I adopted him) is a little shyer but is now beginning to relax with me. He sat draped on my shoulders watching TV for quite some time earlier tonight.


    As for hearing. The "experts" say snakes are deaf and can only feel vibration due to the fact that they don't have eardrums etc. Well, none of us have been inside a snakes head so we can't know what they can hear or even how they hear, be it sound (hearing like we do) or vibration. If it's vibration, then that is a form of hearing too. I'm sure they can differentiate between different sounds or vibrations. When it's feeding time on a Sunday I heat up the rodents in the kitchen with a hairdryer. Last Sunday was a really good example. I remarked to my husband that the snakes were in their hides. I went into the kitchen and started heating up the rodents. For some reason I stopped what I was doing and went back into the living room. Where the BPs viv is would be about 12 yards from the kitchen. I glanced at their viv and both were out of the hide ready and waiting for their meal. Now they could have smelt the rodents but on the other hand they may have "heard" the hairdryer. As an experiment, I'll switch the hairdryer on without warming the rodents and see what they do on Sunday. You've got me thinking now.

    A few weeks ago, my two Boas were in their hide with their heads poking out (their viv is also in the living room). It wasn't feeding day. One of my cats knocked his feeding bowl off the shelf in the kitchen (the bowl's made of stainless steel). I was watching the Boas at the time. Two heads turned simultaneously towards the kitchen!

    Another thing that intrigues me is, if snakes are deaf and can hear no sound, then, apart from a defence mechanism, why do they hiss to warn off unwanted attention? What would be the point of hissing if you can't hear yourself hiss to warn off predators?

    I think overall we know very little about snakes. What they hear, what they think etc. The vast majority of people abhor snakes so it's easy to write them off as being deaf, unintelligent animals. It makes it easier to say "Ugh. Disgusting, slimy, horrible creatures. I wouldn't go near one of them". Show that a snake has intelligence, can hear and can be affectionate (in their own way), then you have a different ball-game and everything nasty that's been instilled in most people suddenly gets turned on it's head - and that wouldn't suit the various groups who think that snakes shouldn't be kept as pets.

    My snakes are friendly, affectionate in their own way and equally will let me know when they don't want to be handled or disturbed just like my cats do. When my cats don't want to be petted or stroked, they jump down or disappear out the cat flap. I also know when not to disturb the snakes, usually at shedding time - I keep a close watch on them without disturbing them - like to make sure they're OK. I don't disturb them either for 2-3 days after they've fed. I wouldn't like it if someone picked me up after I'd had a big meal so I afford the snakes the same courtesy.

    Whether snakes can hear or not, whether they're intelligent or not, whether they have affection for their owners or not, they absolutely fascinate me and I love them to bits.

  4. #4
    BPnet Veteran jotay's Avatar
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    I don't know if it's the vibration or the noise of the things in the box.
    The floor is carpeted with thick carpet and pad so it really makes no noise when being pulled out from under the cage.

    Hey let me know if this week when you just turn on the hairdryer with no rodent out if they respond.

    I think they are a whole lot smarter than we think. And I do think they have a bigger memory than given credit for.
    ~ Johanna ~ aka Jody

    "The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be measured by the way it's animals are treated"
    ~ Mahatma Gandhi~

  5. #5
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    i know my BP's are very smart. when i walk into mu room with a paper bag(what i carry the rodents in) it doesnt matter who is being fed, as soon as they see the bag they come out in striking position. and my male zulu who is in the cage with the sliding glass front always, always, always pushes up against the glass and pushes it to where it would open. luckily it doesnt because he cant get any traction on the glass.
    -marshall

  6. #6
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    Snakes can associate cruelty with humans


    My daugher's ex-boyfriend rescued a rat snake some years ago that had been cruelly treated by his owner who hadn't a clue how to treat anything with respect

    Every time anyone came into the room where the snake was, it would flee to the back of it's viv as far away from humans as possible. Ewan said it was completely terrified. If he didn't leave the room where it was, it would strike the glass with such force, it used to hurt it's nose. He had to call in expert help to help the snake and it ended up in a small zoo which has a reptile house with a more natural environment. The last we heard it was doing fine - away from any human contact.

    We don't know how intelligent animals are or what they are capable of. Watched a programme earlier this year (think it was on Animal Planet) where a Lynx (I think it was a Lynx) was successfully tamed and is now some Ambassador for the wildlife park where it lives. Her keeper flew in the face of the "experts" who said the Lynx could never be tamed. She believed it could, and by spending most of her time with the Lynx, showing the Lynx kindness, love and giving her lots of attention, she succeeded. It was thought the Lynx didn't have the brain-power to learn to adapt to that kind of life. This Lynx will walk on a lead and is as affectionate as a domestic cat.

    Another thing that I think is that most of the reptile books, written by "experts" were mostly first published over 10 years ago. While there's still a lot of good, valid information in them (and I'm specifically referring to the one everyone seems to rave about - and without naming it, you probably know which book I'm referring to ) a lot of the information in it IMHO is outdated now, the reason being, when it was written most snakes were wild-caught. Now many (and over here nearly all) BPs are captive bred and have been for a long time, so often the first thing they see when they hatch are their siblings and us humans. In other words, they're becoming domesticated.

    I could be wrong in saying this (and I will stand corrected if I am) but I go on quite a few reptile forums and by what I've read, the people who seem to have most problems with their BPs are the ones who do not handle their BPs on a regular basis. By saying that, anyone who gets a BP should give the snake time to settle into their new surroundings and establish a good feeding routine first before moving on to handling, starting handling for very short periods and build up gradually. Patience is needed. The same goes for any animal. Even kittens need time to adjust to a new home and will often disappear into the darkest, most inaccessible spot (for humans to get them out) for days until they build their confidence and become familiar with their new surroundings.

    On another forum a few weeks ago someone wrote in and said they couldn't go near their BP as it would hiss and strike, tagging it's owner several times (defensive). He went on to say he only went near the snake for about 5 minutes once a month to change it's substrate and for about a minute once a week to throw a rat in it's viv. And he wondered why the snake was scared of him and defensive I wrote back to that thread and said I believed it was because he wasn't handling the snake enough. I got slated for saying that by the so-called "experts" on the site. Incidentally, that site is now closed down.

    I handle my BPs regularly. Byron especially will let me know he wants to come out. If I ignore him, he climbs onto the viv lock and shows off. I can never ignore him when he does that. If I did, I do believe he'd go off and sulk LOL.

    With gentle, regular handling Bobby my rescue is coming on really well too and is relaxing more when I handle him now.

  7. #7
    Wally Bait tigerlily's Avatar
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    I believe they are far from domestication. That is a process that takes hundreds of years, since you have thousands of years of instict to overcome. I agree with you tho that with handling you can make them used to you, and I'm glad to hear Bobby is doing so well with you!
    Christie
    Reptile Geek

    Cause when push comes to shove you taste what you're made of
    You might bend, till you break cause its all you can take
    On your knees you look up decide you've had enough
    You get mad you get strong wipe your hands shake it off
    Then you Stand

  8. #8
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    wow, a domesticated BP... man would that be a site to see. good words lady python.
    -marshall

  9. #9
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    Tigerlily. One of the most common domesticated animal is the cat and has been for thousands of years yet they still retain their "wild instincts" - I know I have 11 cats who delight in reminding me that they are still wild animals at heart by bringing me prezzies of mice and rats (and once Topsy let a LIVE rat loose in my living room. That was fun trying to get it out - I swear the cats were smirking LOL). Snakes will never become domesticated in the way cats and dogs are, but then how do we define domesticity. Just as there are wild cats and domestic cats (same goes for dogs) yet turn a domestic cat out to fend for itself and it quickly reverts back to instinct to survive. Snakes in that respect are no different - they have the same instinct to survive. Do we class snakes that live with us in our houses as domestic pets and those that live in the wild, wild? I think some species of snake will eventually become classed as domestic pets (Cornsnakes are, in many places, being more or less classed as domestic due to their friendly, outgoing natures already). BPs may well follow for the same reason, plus they don't grow too large. Boas, another very friendly snake. I class my snakes as part of my family because they are part of my family but we should never, ever forget to treat them with the respect they deserve. Aaahhh! My snakes have got me coiled round their tails

  10. #10
    BPnet Veteran frankykeno's Avatar
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    Re: Can they be this smart??

    I do not know, as no one knows, actually how smart a snake can become given enough contact with a "humanized" environment. I think personally they have amazing survival skills and that drive to survive, can push them to react in ways they might not have to in the wild. I know from my limited time with our ball pythons that given a pretty much identical set of circumstances, Rionach and Kyna will react quite differently. Why they do this is a mystery to me, however, I quite enjoy the mysteries that come with snake keeping.

    For instance, the routine a person has when feeding their snake may well cause a reaction in the snake. Nature means for them to react to their wild prey in certain ways, since they are in captivity and that prey is acting differently (being presented dead on hemostats say) it makes complete sense they would soon learn the routine of that prey and react accordingly. Whether that is true memory or just an automatic adjustment/reaction to the establish routin of their lives, who knows.

    I've said it before in another thread...I hope snakes never become "domesticated" per se. I love the feeling that these creatures which carry so much of the wild in them, share our family life. I feel wonderful that they in their way "allow" me contact with them. If I have to move them to clean or something and it is obviously stressing them, it's over as fast as I can do it.

    For us, the snakes call all the shots basically when it comes to that interaction, their needs and wellbeing being paramount always over our human need to touch or hold them. So far we're loving having them and they seem to be thriving so it's all good.


    ~~Jo~~
    ~~Joanna~~

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