ring of white puffiness around eyes, and there are tiny small white bugs! :(

[redshepherd]

could we get pix of the lil white bugs? i'm curious as to what they look like. i'm sure w/ your skills u can make them look beautiful!

Edit: also i've dealt w/ mites twice. 1) w/ my first BP Elphie; 2) when i took Rain home. i use Natural Chemistry Reptile Relief Spray on the animal itself and PAM on enclosures, hides, decor, etc. if not already in QT, QT the animal, throw out substrate, spray/gas/fog everything, i even boiled some decor, keep on paper towel and hides only in enclosure while in treatment, continue treatment w/ Reptile Spray and PAM as directed.

I washed most of them away yesterday, so they're sort of hard to see now. I'm not sure I want to handle Jack much anymore, in case eggs or larvae get on my hands LOL, unfortunately. But I'm convinced they're snake mites, since I did find 2 adults!

Thanks, I did just buy PAM and also I'm trying to figure out what else to buy on amazon to make $25 now... I found the reptile spray as an add-on for only $6!

[Sauzo]

Snake mites arent native to the US so you wouldnt find them outside in nature here. So your dog didnt bring them in. You had to have gotten them from a pet shop, friend with snakes with mites or possibly from a feeder food.

Eggs usually arent laid on the snake itself. They lay them in a nice dark corner so like the top corners in the cage etc.

And now that you verified it is mites, like i said, i would wipe down the outside of the cages that arent affected yet. Like i said, the one time i had to deal with them, only Luna got them, no one else got them and they were in the same room until i found them on Luna and moved her to a treatment set up. I did go crazy and wiped down all the stands/tables that the other cages were on and wiped down the outside of those cages. In Luna's treatment tank, i wiped down that table, the outside of the tank and the top rim of the tank. Basically to keep them inside until they were dead so none could escape. And the ones that had escaped before i caught them is the reason i wiped down the the tables/stands and outside of the cages of my other snakes as well as any wires that were touching the cages. Basically, any way for them to get in the cage stack especially around the vents.

I did treatment on Luna for 2-2.5 months and wiped down the outside of the cage stacks for about 4 months.

[Sauzo]

Oh and a trick i found is put any decor, temp units etc in zip lock bags and shoot a shot of PAM in the bag and seal it up and put it in the garage for 2 months. If there are any eggs hidden inside the temp unit or crevises of decor, they will hatch before the 2 month period and die.

[redshepherd]

Snake mites arent native to the US so you wouldnt find them outside in nature here. So your dog didnt bring them in. You had to have gotten them from a pet shop, friend with snakes with mites or possibly from a feeder food.

Eggs usually arent laid on the snake itself. They lay them in a nice dark corner so like the top corners in the cage etc.

And now that you verified it is mites, like i said, i would wipe down the outside of the cages that arent affected yet. Like i said, the one time i had to deal with them, only Luna got them, no one else got them and they were in the same room until i found them on Luna and moved her to a treatment set up. I did go crazy and wiped down all the stands/tables that the other cages were on and wiped down the outside of those cages. In Luna's treatment tank, i wiped down that table, the outside of the tank and the top rim of the tank. Basically to keep them inside until they were dead so none could escape. And the ones that had escaped before i caught them is the reason i wiped down the the tables/stands and outside of the cages of my other snakes as well as any wires that were touching the cages. Basically, any way for them to get in the cage stack especially around the vents.

I did treatment on Luna for 2-2.5 months and wiped down the outside of the cage stacks for about 4 months.

Man, I just can't imagine where I got them from... I didn't visit a pet shop or live feeders or visited friends with snakes. And not possible that they came from the breeder right, after a whole month? I'd think they'd have appeared way earlier if it was that.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to do all that you said. I think I want to set my house on fire too. LOL. Thankfully Jack was in a 15qt tub, so it's a lot simpler to manage than big tanks.

Does PAM have to kill on contact, or would the fumes also kill mites?

I'm also worried that the mites are out and around the cages, crawling around my room too or something. Does anyone know how long they can survive without a host? Do you think I should spray the floor and stuff too near where his old tub was?

[AbsoluteApril]

Thanks, I did just buy PAM and also I'm trying to figure out what else to buy on amazon to make $25 now...

They sell PAM (provent a mite) on amazon?
I've always had to buy it direct from pro products.

I wouldn't worry about spraying the floor or anything, just spray the affected enclosure inside and outside in a well ventilated area and let it completely dry.

Good luck, they are annoying but you found it fast and they should be eradicated quickly. One treatment is all it's ever taken for me (the very few times I brought in a new snake in QT that had mites).

oh and here is a write up about the life cycle of snake mite:
http://vpi.com/publications/the_life...of_snake_mites

[redshepherd]

They sell PAM (provent a mite) on amazon?
I've always had to buy it direct from pro products.

I wouldn't worry about spraying the floor or anything, just spray the affected enclosure inside and outside in a well ventilated area and let it completely dry.

Good luck, they are annoying but you found it fast and they should be eradicated quickly. One treatment is all it's ever taken for me (the very few times I brought in a new snake in QT that had mites).

oh and here is a write up about the life cycle of snake mite:
http://vpi.com/publications/the_life...of_snake_mites

Oh no, I meant the reptile spray is on amazon for $6 as an add-on with 2 day shipping. I bought PAM on Pro-products. I still haven't figured out what to add to make $25.... lol I would buy the $11 one, but it takes a week to arrive, and I don't want to wait that long.

That is good to know that they're not just going to take over my house lol!

[bcr229]

And not possible that they came from the breeder right, after a whole month? I'd think they'd have appeared way earlier if it was that.

That's very possible if just a few adults or even nymphs were shipped with the snake as it would take a few weeks for a full-blown infestation to develop.

[redshepherd]

That's very possible if just a few adults or even nymphs were shipped with the snake as it would take a few weeks for a full-blown infestation to develop.

Maannnnn... that’s just grand lol :S

[Sauzo]

Man, I just can't imagine where I got them from... I didn't visit a pet shop or live feeders or visited friends with snakes. And not possible that they came from the breeder right, after a whole month? I'd think they'd have appeared way earlier if it was that.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to do all that you said. I think I want to set my house on fire too. LOL. Thankfully Jack was in a 15qt tub, so it's a lot simpler to manage than big tanks.

Does PAM have to kill on contact, or would the fumes also kill mites?

I'm also worried that the mites are out and around the cages, crawling around my room too or something. Does anyone know how long they can survive without a host? Do you think I should spray the floor and stuff too near where his old tub was?

They could have come from the breeder. Snake mite eggs can take a month or so to hatch depending on the conditions. That is why it is recommended to treat at least 2 months.

PAM actually leaves residual Permethrin on the spot where it is sprayed, The aerosol is just the propellant for it. Dont breath the fumes. I accidently did a few times and my chest got tight and my throat got scratchy for about an hour. And yes the fumes will kill too because there will be permethrin in that as well but the majority will be in the liquid.

What i did was use paper towels and lay them down and spray them as per directions on the can. Leave the water bowl out for 24 hours. The snake wont die but if there is a spot you missed letting dry and the snake goes through it and then into the water bowl to try and drown the mites, the water will soak up the PAM. That happened to my JCP and i had to rush her to my vet as she lost motor skills and everything. Luckily my vet was able to flush her systems and save her. So yeah, leave the water bowl out 24 hours after application. And after you apply it, quickly cover the top of the cage and let them fumes settle inside the cage for about 15 mins. Then you should be good.

Repeat application every week and check for dead mites on the paper towels. Do this for 2-3 months.

As for mites outside the cage. If you had that many babies and the snake was actually lethargic, i would guess you have them outside the cage as well. Like i said, wipe down the any way the mites could get into other snake cages, table legs, table tops, outside cage walls, cords going into or touching cages, around the doors of cages, around the vents of cages. I never sprayed it on my floors, i just wiped down all the stuff i listed above for about 4 months.

Also watch the other snakes and check them closely to make sure they dont get it. If you find one with it, then you can pretty much assume they all got them ad you will have to treat all the cages and snakes.

Mites can travel long distances. And then can survive a month or so. I'm not exactly sure how long they can go with blood but i know the babies dont eat right away. They kind of hang out. Then once they do take a meal, is when they change color and then they breed and the females wanders off to find a nice dark, damp, warm place to lay eggs. I'm sure you can google the life stages of snake mites to find out. I just know, they can survive at least a month and eggs can last a month or so. So even if you dont see any mites after a month, keep treating as there might be eggs still that havent hatched. Like i said, i treated for about 2.5 months and then moved Luna back down with the other snakes and into her new AP cage.

[redshepherd]

They could have come from the breeder. Snake mite eggs can take a month or so to hatch depending on the conditions. That is why it is recommended to treat at least 2 months.

PAM actually leaves residual Permethrin on the spot where it is sprayed, The aerosol is just the propellant for it. Dont breath the fumes. I accidently did a few times and my chest got tight and my throat got scratchy for about an hour. And yes the fumes will kill too because there will be permethrin in that as well but the majority will be in the liquid.

What i did was use paper towels and lay them down and spray them as per directions on the can. Leave the water bowl out for 24 hours. The snake wont die but if there is a spot you missed letting dry and the snake goes through it and then into the water bowl to try and drown the mites, the water will soak up the PAM. That happened to my JCP and i had to rush her to my vet as she lost motor skills and everything. Luckily my vet was able to flush her systems and save her. So yeah, leave the water bowl out 24 hours after application. And after you apply it, quickly cover the top of the cage and let them fumes settle inside the cage for about 15 mins. Then you should be good.

Repeat application every week and check for dead mites on the paper towels. Do this for 2-3 months.

As for mites outside the cage. If you had that many babies and the snake was actually lethargic, i would guess you have them outside the cage as well. Like i said, wipe down the any way the mites could get into other snake cages, table legs, table tops, outside cage walls, cords going into or touching cages, around the doors of cages, around the vents of cages. I never sprayed it on my floors, i just wiped down all the stuff i listed above for about 4 months.

Also watch the other snakes and check them closely to make sure they dont get it. If you find one with it, then you can pretty much assume they all got them ad you will have to treat all the cages and snakes.

Mites can travel long distances. And then can survive a month or so. I'm not exactly sure how long they can go with blood but i know the babies dont eat right away. They kind of hang out. Then once they do take a meal, is when they change color and then they breed and the females wanders off to find a nice dark, damp, warm place to lay eggs. I'm sure you can google the life stages of snake mites to find out. I just know, they can survive at least a month and eggs can last a month or so. So even if you dont see any mites after a month, keep treating as there might be eggs still that havent hatched. Like i said, i treated for about 2.5 months and then moved Luna back down with the other snakes and into her new AP cage.

Oh wow- yeah I will definitely treat at least 2 months. Also, I'm thinking possibly they were even on the shipping box and somehow made their way onto Jack awhile later, because I kept his shipping box this whole time in his room. :S

Also geez, how scary! Thanks for the heads up. I'm so paranoid of using PAM incorrectly, it being so poisonous.

Thanks for the info too, it helps a lot! I never thought I would have to deal with mites... I normally avoided reptile shows for this reason, but here I am lol.