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  1. #1
    Registered User Aedryan Methyus's Avatar
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    Angry Big Brand Name Prices (Rant)

    I am brand new to this business and don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer in pricing these animals at their market value and not trying to undercut everyone. I'm not going to mention any names (i'm sure most of you can name a few of them), but the prices some of these larger "famous" breeders are putting on their animals compared to what everyone else is pricing theirs at is ludicrous! I have seen many instances where they have their animals priced at more than double what I paid for the same exact thing and I paid full market value! I'm talking about single gene and Het animals that aren't exactly considered to be"elite", either. I'm sorry, but just because someone's "brand" happens to be more known than other peoples, simply because they managed to become "Youtube famous" does not make their animals any higher quality or more valuable than any other responsible breeder that produces and sells healthy animals with the same genes! If anything, I feel that animals purchased from smaller breeders might be higher quality, because they are able to give their animals more time, care and attention, because they don't have thousands of them. Something else that irks me is, I see a lot of Youtube videos where people, who buy from these breeders go out of their way to brag about having purchased their animals from them... lol So what!

    I'm sorry, but it just baffles me how businesses like that manage to stay in business. Not just in the reptile business, but big brand names in almost any business...
    1.0 Lavender Albino Motley 25% Kalatoa SD Reticulated Python
    0.1 Purple Albino Golden Child 25% Kalatoa SD Reticulated Python
    1.1 Sumatran Short Tail Pythons (Chrome Heads) - Jasper & Samantha
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    1.1 Marble Borneo Pythons - Bam-Bam & Pebbles
    0.1 Ghost Het Moonglow/Possible Super Boa Constrictor (BI) - Priscilla
    1.0 Normal Boa Constrictor Aberrant (BI) - Simon
    1.1 Woma Pythons - Steve-O & Sheila
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  2. #2
    bcr229's Avatar
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    "Market" price is simply the price at which someone is willing to buy. If a buyer chooses to pay more for a "name brand" product where the quality is no different than a vendor with a lesser-known brand, so what? I choose to spend my dollars more wisely than that, doesn't matter whether it's animals, clothes, food, etc.

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    Aedryan Methyus (11-21-2017),GoingPostal (Today)

  4. #3
    BPnet Veteran KevinK's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brand Name Prices (Rant)

    If it makes you feel better, I feel that some of the specific breeders you're talking about aim for lower priced animals to begin with as a large majority of their sales....because if I'm going to seek out for example, a super black pastel het pied in pursuit of Panda pieds....I'm DEFINITELY going to be shopping with price in mind.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that a large majority of the sales they do are to brand new snake owners, not that there's anything wrong with that but when you enter the hobby you aren't necessarily aware of sites like Kingsnake and MorphMarket.

    I"m pretty sure I know who you're talking about based on this and if you watch his videos where he boxes the animals almost ALL of them are lower priced, three gene or less animals. As far as price goes, it's ALL about overhead however. I get what you're saying completely, but at the same time as someone who is WELL aware of current real estate market prices, commercial real estate prices are INSANE in my specific area at least....then factor in a sizable HVAC bill to upgrade the facility to hit your heating requirements, and then factor in your heating bill each month.

    As for smaller breeders having better animals, I would tend to agree with that but of course there are bad breeders as well, both large and small. I can tell you the name of a SUPER well known breeder that is notorious for having a mite problem (PM me if you actually want the name) and sells VERY expensive animals to begin with. However, when you're dealing with a small breeder the transaction is ALL about trust as well. Is a random guy off MorphMarket with no business contacts REALLY going to sell you an animal that is 100% het for whatever they say it is?....maybe, maybe not. However, saying an animal is het for something can earn you potentially thousands of dollars more and by the time you would find out, they could be long gone with your money in hand.
    Last edited by KevinK; 11-21-2017 at 02:57 PM.

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    Aedryan Methyus (11-21-2017)

  6. #4
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    Re: Big Brand Name Prices (Rant)

    Not to stir the hornets nest but the power of the internet and utilizing tools such as YouTube has served a lot of people well. Heck it's made a lot of people wealthy. Another powerful tool is forums where word of mouth advertising is used amongst the members. Your rant, and I do hear you loud and clearly spills over into the accessories market as well. The latest flavor of Koolaid I have seen that is getting drank quite rapidly is Reptile Prime. Substrate has been beat to death for many years and yet we see posts weekly from people who ask "will my snake die after eating a mouthfull of substrate"? And yet with proper advertising and since it is dust less , people over look their snake eating the stuff AND pay a premium price to watch their snakes eat it. Look at Spyder Robotics. Forum posts are almost at the point where if you don't use a Herpstat your snake is dead upon contact with it's cage. What I'm saying in all of this is we live in a Capitalist society. If a person is willing to pay a certain price for their own "feel good" that is their choice. Nothing will ever change that. I know what works for me and the system I have garnered for my cheap snakes using cheap accessories has served me VERY well for many many years. For others, they prefer the Cadillac route which is ok too. Thats what makes owning snakes fun.

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    Aedryan Methyus (11-21-2017)

  8. #5
    Registered User cchardwick's Avatar
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    Supply and demand is a fickle thing. I see prices for most snakes all over the board, huge swings in prices for apparently no reason. I've seen all kinds of things wrong with one or another snake / breeder: mites, respiratory infections in their collections, not feeding their hatchlings (a year old snake the size of a hatchling), not really knowing what genes are in the snakes and making a lot of guesses, etc.

    You can charge whatever you want for your snakes but sooner or later people will buy or not buy based not only on the snake but on your reputation. It's not all about pricing. If I buy a female and have to wait three years before I can breed her I'll pay an extra 50% to know that the snake has been well cared for, is mite and RI free, and that the genetics listed are accurate. And a lot of people will pay more for a snake based on the pattern alone, a smiley face on the back of the snake, a mark that resembles their initials, a head stamp that is symmetrical, etc. I'd also rather buy from a guy down the street and save on shipping, especially if he will willing to do a partial trade for other snakes / mice / bedding / etc..

    One down side of big breeders that I don't like is that they don't communicate very well. Sometimes it's hard to communicate enough to even buy a snake. Some people like instant text so they can have their questions answered, like what was the hatch date? Any other possible het genes in the mix? What is it currently feeding on? etc.. The best snake I ever bought had a separate personal website with a 'buy it now' button through PayPal and instant texting with the breeder.

    I think at first most new snake owners buy based on price alone until they get some experience, then choose breeders based on other preferences.

    I've also seen people single handedly crash the market for a particular morph by 50% almost overnight by selling their snakes really cheap. Not sure the big breeders can keep up with the market trends that fluctuate so fast. Some morphs hold their price for years, some tank and never come back and some rebound.

    It also comes down to supply and demand. I've shopped around for the best price before and a day or two after I bought it another one listed for 20% to 30% less. Since I'm breeding it's no big deal, I will eventually recoup that potential loss. I've also seen morphs drop in price like a rock. Then a lot of people stop producing them and a few years later they come back into the market at a higher price.

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    Aedryan Methyus (11-21-2017)

  10. #6
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    I like to buy from people who are available and approachable. And I am loyal to a fault. My first snake was a corn from SMR. Iím sure I drove Don nuts both before and after that sale. That experience has been my frame of reference for future purchases. Iím willing to pay a bit more for peace of mind and future support, especially with hets. But I also learned the hard way that price does not guarantee satisfaction. Having a membership here has given me the confidence to expand my collection because of the support and dynamics. Iíve bought from people, or steered clear of people, based on what Iíve read here. My best advice on price? Research the type of animal, the seller, and, if the price seems a bit high, or low, ASK the seller why that price. The BOI on FaunaClassified is a great tool as well.

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    Momokahn (11-25-2017)

  12. #7
    BPnet Senior Member artgecko's Avatar
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    I think it comes down to doing your research as a buyer... If someone wants to pay 2-3x the going rate for a morph, then they can.. I wouldn't do so, but I'm aware of the tools we can use to look at pricing in the market (MM, KS, Fauna, etc.). Newcomers might not have that info and just buy from a "big name".

    I am fine with breeders pricing a little higher for quality and high standard of care. I recently bought 2 BPs for a future breeding project. One came from a small breeder who had excellent communication, sent pics, hatch date, attempted f/t feedings for me, etc. Great snake, great feeder, and great sales experience. I'd purchase from that breeder again even though their pricing was higher than others on the morph I purchased (which I didn't realize until after the sale).

    Second purchase was from a much larger well-known breeder with a good rep. Animal should have been a much higher-cost animal that the other purchase (1st purchase was a recessive animal with 1 additional codom gene, 2nd purchase was a recessive animal with 4 additional codom genes). I paid around $50 more for the second animal (including shipping costs). However, communication wasn't as good, animal was healthy, but smaller and is a much more finicky eater.

    Both purchases ended with healthy animals, but price and service were a lot different and in this case, the big breeder was selling his animals for a lot less. Note that this big breeder doesn't have a youtube presence that I'm aware of.
    Currently keeping: 1.0 Boa constrictor amarali
    0.2 Kenyan sand boas 1.0 Hypo BCI 1.0 CA motley BCI
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    1.1.1 gargoyle geckos 0.2 Rats 2.3 White's tree frogs
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