Help! Paradox or Pied?

[Pancake's Momma]

Hello there fellow snake lovers/owners!
I recently acquired my very first snake, 5 year old female ball python named Pancake. She is the sweetest little thing and is totally worth the 13 long years it took me to convince my parents to let me get one. However, I have a question about her morph. The person I got her from, Jeff, owner of The Reptile Zone in Bend (I highly suggest visiting btw), told me that she is a pastel het pied paradox. I'm not entirely sure that this is what she is however.





As you can see from the pictures, the paradox is fairly mild. The thing I am wondering though, is if that stark white is the paradox, or pied being effected by it. Also, both of her parents were pied.

So basically I was hoping for your guys' opinions on this. I am wanting to breed Pancake at some point when she gets a little bigger, and so that is one of the reasons I am wanting to know if she is pied or het pied. Feedback would be greatly appreciated, even if it's just a guess. ^^

[StillBP]

Ringer

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[cchardwick]

Wait, you said both of her parents are pied? Did you mean het pied? Looks like a very low white pied to me, not sure you would see a ringer with a het pied. You usually see ringers with specific morphs, such as Champagne het pied or Champagne Cinnamon / Fire, sometimes with Disco stuff, but usually never just a het pied, at least from what I've seen.

If both parents were pied she is a pied of course! Sounds like she may be big enough to breed, if you can find someone with a male pied you could breed her, if she is pied all the offspring would be pied as well. If she is het pied only half of the babies would come out pied. If both parents were just het pied there is a possibility that it's just a paradox and there's no pied in the snake at all. The only way to tell for sure would be to breed her.

[StillBP]

Any morph or even normal can get ringers. There is no set morph that get them. My female het pied is a ringer. But it's true that morphs like champagne are more likely to have a ringer. Tho if both parents were visual pied than she's pied. My guess is at least one was a het . She looks like a pastel to me with a ringer

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[Pancake's Momma]

My apologies, apparently only one of the parents was a pied. Also, what exactly is a ringer?

[StillBP]

My apologies, apparently only one of the parents was a pied. Also, what exactly is a ringer?

A ringer is just a white or orange ring or partual ring around a snake that doesn't fit with what you expect from the morph. Several different morphs get them and thus far none have proven to be hereditary
It's just something cool. Much like paradox markings

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[Godzilla78]

Yeah, I'm going with the "pastel het pied paradox" as the seller described. It is really cool how the Piebald genes showed up just a tiny bit on this het piebald. It doesn't look like a piebald, but I can see the het showing in the paradox marking.

[sugar shane]

so many things that she can be. without knowing what the parents are she is just a pastel with a ringer. not really a paradox snake imo. most likely she was produced from a visual pied to a pastel if she is a 100% het. need more info from the seller to know that. sometimes ringers show up in snakes that are 100% het pied but ringers can show in almost all pairings.

Jim

[cchardwick]

So a snake that has a blotch of white that looks like a pied but isn't a pied from the known genetics is called a 'ringer'. If you knew for sure both parents were pied then this would be a low white pied. If you knew for sure it's just het for pied or not even het pied then we would call it a 'ringer'. A Champagne het pied looks exactly like a pied, but since we know for sure it's not pied we just call it a Champagne with a ringer. (And a Champagne Pied is an all white snake LOL).

[Ax01]

i agree w/ StillBP that it's a Pastel het Pied w/ a ringer. no paradoxing. the influence of the Pied is very strong on the pattern but it's still a Pastel het Pied.

Wait, you said both of her parents are pied? Did you mean het pied? Looks like a very low white pied to me, not sure you would see a ringer with a het pied. You usually see ringers with specific morphs, such as Champagne het pied or Champagne Cinnamon / Fire, sometimes with Disco stuff, but usually never just a het pied, at least from what I've seen.

If both parents were pied she is a pied of course! Sounds like she may be big enough to breed, if you can find someone with a male pied you could breed her, if she is pied all the offspring would be pied as well. If she is het pied only half of the babies would come out pied. If both parents were just het pied there is a possibility that it's just a paradox and there's no pied in the snake at all. The only way to tell for sure would be to breed her.

Any morph or even normal can get ringers. There is no set morph that get them. My female het pied is a ringer. But it's true that morphs like champagne are more likely to have a ringer. Tho if both parents were visual pied than she's pied. My guess is at least one was a het . She looks like a pastel to me with a ringer

StillBP is correct.

A ringer is just a white or orange ring or partual ring around a snake that doesn't fit with what you expect from the morph. Several different morphs get them and thus far none have proven to be hereditary
It's just something cool. Much like paradox markings

So a snake that has a blotch of white that looks like a pied but isn't a pied from the known genetics is called a 'ringer'. If you knew for sure both parents were pied then this would be a low white pied. If you knew for sure it's just het for pied or not even het pied then we would call it a 'ringer'. A Champagne het pied looks exactly like a pied, but since we know for sure it's not pied we just call it a Champagne with a ringer. (And a Champagne Pied is an all white snake LOL).

look at the overall pattern. it's a Pastel het Pied w/ very strong influence from the Pied gene. it retains it's overall Pastel pattern except the distortion the ringer causes. this particular animal is not a visual pied whether it has an attempted ringer or complete white ringer. ringers are associated w/ being het for Pied. i have like 10 BP's w/ various stages of ringers some being 100% het Pied and others w/ no Pied in their lineage.