Cohabing a Pink Tongue Skink and Crested Gecko

[tegu]

Just my 0.2 if you're set on a cohab aren't there more feasible options? Something like a crestie/gargoyle gecko seems like it would work much better. There are species like anoles/grass lizards/fence lizards that are kept communally without a problem. If you must co-hab start with the odds in your favor and get animals with the same requirements.

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[skylord0110]

I keep reptiles because I am passionate about them. My choice to use reptiles in my capstone isn't for an easy A or a ribbon or any of that. I am only using them because I am really passionate about them.I realize that cohabbing is typically bad. In most species it can cause injuries, disease, or death of one or more of the animals. However I truly believe these animals will do great together. I would like to know if any here has owned either of these species. No one has said, "oh well my pink tongue skink is really aggressive" or "my crestie is really aggressive". Everyone is just asking how I can be so confident about it when I have never owned either species. It really seems like everyone is just talking like they know what they are talking about without citing their own experience. If you have found any issues with either species please just tell me. I know that no matter how docile a species is there will always be a few that aren't, but I can talk to the breeders about their temperaments, and see how they behave. Of course there might be a few that lie just to get a sale, but I'm in contact with a reptile keeper with years of experience that has been going to this expo for a long time now. They can tell me who to avoid, and who to trust. And yes I have talked to people that have owned crested geckos. Everyone goes on about how easy they are to keep, and how docile they are. I have brought up breeding multiple times because it shows how compatible they are. If these two species can get along well enough to breed without issue that says something. The adults and babies of both species got along well enough, and if that doesn't make you think about it more openly I don't know what will. Yes they had more space, but I won't have nearly as many in one enclosure. And please don't talk to me like I have no care for their well being. I'm not soulless. I wouldn't even consider doing this if I found any evidence of there being even occasional cases of violence between these 2. Even when in sub par conditions they tend to do just fine. The absolute worst case scenario is they live fine for years, I'm off to college and for whatever reason I can't keep them until I finish. All of the sudden they start fighting. What do I tell the person keeping them for me to do? A wood barrier between the 2 of them until I can send money for 2 individual cages. I'm already starting to save up money for that should it ever happen. I have thought about this. And I'm very confident that the temps will be fine. I have a light for my ball python that gets to 120. And don't worry her basking spot never reaches over 100 degrees it's typically around 90-95. Not even a foot away i have a thermometer that reads 75 degrees. There's no doubt in my mind the crestie will be able to get away from the skink's heat source all day and night. So please don't repeat yourselves because I'm starting to get sick of doing it myself. If you have owned either of these species, and can give me some advice from your own experience I'd love to hear it. But for the rest of you that have not owned one or both of these species please stop replying. The one thing is I haven't been able to contact anyone with experience with a pink tongue, but I've been working on it and I will continue to. Thank you for your criticism. I have taken into consideration, but I am yet to find any hard evidence to change my mind.

[Craiga 01453]

People can and will continue to reply on a public forum because we are passionate about the animals. You've got multiple sources, many of whom are adults with many years of reptile experience telling you it's a bad idea. You said "absolute worst case scenario " would be they live fine together for years and eventually have to be seperated???? How about worst case one is dead in a week?!?!??!?!?!?!
You also mentioned your guidance counselor approved the topic. Does you guidance counselor teach science or have experience keeping reptiles? I'm guessing not...
Please show some maturity and rethink this.

[skylord0110]

Could you explain to me how one would kill the other in only a week without me noticing? These are small babies. Both docile species that could barely even manage to get their jaws around one another. They both have the ability to get away so I see no reason that either would be able to just instantly kill the other reptile without me noticing and violence.

[Kcl]

I'm going to be honest here, although you seem very set on doing this specific thing. You are doing both the reptiles and yourself a disservice. Since you'd like only specific experience, I will speak to my specific experience although it's not the type you requested. I have gotten into a Ph.d. program in a similar field, although I could not attend due to circumstances outside of my control (project not funded - unlikely to be funded by current administration - hoping to get back to it in a better political climate for these things).

In both this process and university, I have spent time with a number of professors who study amphibians and reptiles and related fields. I have read their work, I have read others' work, I have spoken to them about their work. I can speak with a large amount of certainty on this - this project WILL hurt you with professors if you want to go into zoology.

It fails multiple tenants of animal ethics in research. It shows insufficient interest in any part of the actual science of zoology or related fields and insufficient concern for animal welfare. Since you lack a background in these specific species' behavior, you have no chance of assessing the animals' behavioral responses to cohabitation. This is a tricky thing to start with for reptiles and nearly impossible with the lack of background. You do not have the resources to assess the endocrine system to determine stress levels and that requires euthanasia anyway. The only possible results are "one animal died", "two animals died", "both animals lived." It is unlikely that anyone in your high school will have the background knowledge to understand any of these issues. A zoology professor will.

It also will not be convincing support for hobbyists. I cohab same-species same-gender garter snakes based on what I feel is sufficiently compelling research on their sociality in the wild. I also support the few expert level community tanks out there, which are basically aspiring to be a piece of the natural environment assembled and maintained by someone with tons of experience and expertise. I am more open to co-habbing than many. The proposed project convinces me that I should be even quieter about my own cohabbing and discourage it even more than I already do. Both animals may live. This is not sufficient for animal welfare. For this co-habbing to be ethical, they need to be equally healthy with similar stress levels to if they were housed separately in a manner consistent with current best practices for the species. Again, assessing stress levels would require either a very strong grounding in animal behavior (again, even with this still somewhat tricky for reptiles), or endocrine testing.

[jclaiborne]

Could you explain to me how one would kill the other in only a week without me noticing? These are small babies. Both docile species that could barely even manage to get their jaws around one another. They both have the ability to get away so I see no reason that either would be able to just instantly kill the other reptile without me noticing and violence.

You are severely underestimating the power in a skinks jaws. I have not owned a Pink Tongue, but I have handled them, they are essentially a smaller more arboreal cousin of the blue tongues. A skink can put the hurt on you. Pink Tongues in the wild generally feed on snails. If they can crush a snail shell without issue they will have no problem ripping through the soft skin of a crested gecko. This has been pointed out time and time again to you in both threads you posted.


The cage size you stated is way too small, there is no way you will get a proper thermal gradient in that cage. Even if you get them both as babies the pink tongue will rapidly grow.

You keep mentioning breeding, have you every seen a skink breed? They are brutal, when I put my female in the cage with my male he grabs her by the back of the neck and clamp down, even with their tough scales there is almost always a little blood.

Let me ask you this, you say you are passionate about the animals and care about them. Would you house a ball python with a boa? I mean they are both snakes right, they should get along and be best friends right?

Even if both lizards survive, they will not thrive, all that you are really doing is causing a lot of undue stress on both animals. If the skink does turn and go after the gecko you aren't going to be able to stop anything unit it is too late, one good bite from an adult will likely do enough damage to kill it, and lets be honest if you are having to "save up" to buy two enclosures years down the road how are you going to afford a vet but should something happen.

Everyone has tried to nicely point out the flaws they see to you, and you continue to ignore it. Using a little common sense will get you far in this world.

**oh and on a side note, if you still think we are all idiots over here, why don't you head over to bluetongueskinks.net and create a login there and post your questions, this is a highly concentrated community of skink keepers and breeders from all over the world (all species). Maybe once you get the same response from them you will listen, or you might lecture them about your two months of research....who knows.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

It really seems like everyone is just talking like they know what they are talking about without citing their own experience.

However I truly believe these animals will do great together.

I wouldn't even consider doing this if I found any evidence of there being even occasional cases of violence between these 2

Seems like you came here to ask a question but did not come here to listen to the answers (well at lest not the ones you don't agree with), what you REALLY want to hear is "it's a great idea, you should do it"

We see people like you all the time asking, and then rejecting any good piece of advice.

Same here https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...bearded-dragon

You can't hope to have a zoo type display with minimum husbandry knowledge, fund, or adequate space.

But do what YOU want to do those will be YOUR animals.

[John1982]

I would like to know if any here has owned either of these species. No one has said, "oh well my pink tongue skink is really aggressive" or "my crestie is really aggressive". Everyone is just asking how I can be so confident about it when I have never owned either species. It really seems like everyone is just talking like they know what they are talking about without citing their own experience.

I've kept both and currently keep a small group of pink tongued skinks. The activity levels on the skinks shift with the seasons. While they're often crepuscular throughout the year, they swap from nocturnal foraging in the hotter months to a more diurnal lifestyle when it's cooler. Though I might see midday basking or nighttime activity on any day of the year, they mainly stick to these crepuscular and seasonal trends. Mine didn't start to show much interest in each other until they were past the yearling stage. That said, unless you plan on the crested gecko living on the ceiling 24/7, they're going to come in contact with each other. I keep my skinks in a 4x2x2 enclosure and they cover every inch of it frequently. Out of the 6 babies I bought in 2015, I have 3 remaining that live more or less harmoniously together. I lost one early one - failure to thrive - and have rehomed a couple in the last year to maintain peace. While I never actually witnessed combat, and many days they would all be out basking together throughout the enclosure, I would occasionally see the largest male chasing one of the others - either a female he wanted to mate or another male he wanted to assert dominance over. Oddly enough, he was the only animal that ever got so much as a scruff. Let me tell you though, even an animal 2/3 his size could tear him up pretty good. I'd just come home from work and he'd be good and bloodied. They're tough critters though and after a few sheds he'd look perfectly fine - minus a bit of tail tip he lost in one encounter. These lizards have sharp claws designed for climbing and jaws strong enough to crunch snail shells. The simple act of crawling over the gecko could cause a harm and, if for whatever reason, the skink decides to chomp the crestie - game over.

[skylord0110]

I'm losing patience really fast here. You simply won't listen to any of my points. I started this thread by saying don't tell me to not do it because I'm not changing my mind. And what did I get, "stop stop you can't do it". My research says otherwise. I know I need more experience than I do research. You keep saying I'm ignoring your advice, BUT THAT'S WHAT I SAID I WAS GOING TO DO. I realize you all mean well, and are concerned for the reptiles, but has anyone actually looked into to doing this? Have any of you done any direct research into people's successful attempts at this? The cage is a little small yes, but it's not long until Christmas, and I plan on spending everything I get on improving their housing. If I don't get enough I have my birthday, and a summer job which is far off but is still something. I came here for one question. "I was wondering if it would be better to buy 2 slightly older ones instead of babies(1-2 years old)", and I got my answer real fast. That's all I needed. I'm just going to use this thread to upload pictures, and stuff rather than creating a second thread of nothing but criticism. I don't want to hear, "Hey that's a great idea you should do it", or "Hey that's a horrible idea don't do it". I'm going to do it. I don't want you to just tell me no don't do it. Why can't you propose ideas to improve it instead? Ideas that aren't have them separated. I would initially separate them then introduce them in the same cage later, but I've been told on here that that wouldn't be good. And outside of this thread I have found nothing to go against that or go in support of it. I'll probably continue to respond because I get annoyed very easily by this stuff despite my best efforts to be polite again and again and again. So if you have any suggestions for plants, or anything tell me now. Also pink tongues have their teeth towards the back of their jaw from what I've heard. Assuming that's true they'd probably struggle to clamp down on a struggling crestie even if they manage to catch them off guard. That's just a guess, but I'm just throwing that out there from what I have heard.

[BallPythonWannaBe]

My question would be why,if your project could be about anything, would you do this after all the people stating its a bad idea? Maybe if there was one or two people saying it but almost everyone(Please note these people have years experience keeping herps) is saying that this would not be a good idea to even attempt as there is the possiblility of the animals getting hurt.