Regurgitation - Need Help

[ckuhn003]

Need some help here please. I recently switched over from f/t mice to f/t rats. Fed my BP his 1st rat pup on Weds night. He's a shy eater so I had to let it in the cage and come back the next day to find it gone. Well I left for the weekend and just returned tonight (sunday) and found him laying next to a regurgitated rat. The smell was intoxicating and I was mortified. It took me several minutes to figure out how I was going to get him out of the cage while he sat next to the rat.

For info, he's about 250-250 grams and this was his 1st rat pup. What could be some of the reasons be this happened and what should I do going forward? I think I remember reading that I should hold off feeding him for something like two weeks. Should I try another rat pup again or revert back to a mouse?

Any ideas how to get the smell out of the cage? I stripped everything out and cleaned it w/ some chlorhexadine but that only does so much w/ the trapped air in the pvc enclosure.

[honeybee]

I think the general rule for regurg is do not feed or handle the snake for 2 weeks, then try again with a smaller prey item, but I'm more or less a beginner and could be off.

He certainly sounds big enough for a rat pup, is it possible something in his temps or humidity had gone off while you were gone? Maybe he got a bit stressed by something husbandry wise and thus regurged.

[tttaylorrr]

you'll need a deep cleaning. regurge smell is horrible.

two weeks until next feed. feed smaller prey.

are your temps where they should be and are you certain of those temps? regurge happens due to stress or too low temps. is it possible something spooked him? could temps be too low?

not the same but i tried to feed Coffee Bean a medium mouse when she was 3g below 200g and she struck but refused it. i'm thinking the meal might have been to big for her, so it could have happened with your guy. just an anecdote.

be sure husbandry is not the source of the regurge. where were your feeders from?

[bcr229]

Don't feed for at least two weeks and when you do offer a feeder a size smaller than what you had been. I would feed a f/t mouse hopper. Dust the damp feeder with some NutriBAC, which is a powdered reptile probiotic that helps reptiles recover from stress after shipping, regurges, antibiotic treatments, etc. You can order it on Amazon while you wait for the next feeding.

[ckuhn003]

He certainly sounds big enough for a rat pup, is it possible something in his temps or humidity had gone off while you were gone? Maybe he got a bit stressed by something husbandry wise and thus regurged.

That’s a good question which is hard to answer since I wasn’t there this weekend. I wouldn’t think the temps would have changed since everything is controlled by my Herpstat2. I’m just wondering if it has something to do w/ his 1^st rat.

you'll need a deep cleaning. regurge smell is horrible.

two weeks until next feed. feed smaller prey.

are your temps where they should be and are you certain of those temps? regurge happens due to stress or too low temps. is it possible something spooked him? could temps be too low?

be sure husbandry is not the source of the regurge. where were your feeders from?

It smells really bad but better since I removed the rat. I’ll be honest, I don’t check my temps w/ the temp gun like I did when I 1^st set up the enclosure. I’ve been relying on the readouts on my HerpStat unit, temp and humidity gauges. This morning, the Herpstat was running on the correct settings, the hotside temp gauge was reading 92.8, ambient was 79.5 and humidity was 74%. I’m guessing the cool side surface temp is in the low 80s. I would of used the temp gun but didn’t want to disturb my BP. I can do that tonight if needed.
As for spooked, maybe noise from kids playing in the basement. But that’s just a wild guess. Hasn’t been an issue before.
I bought the feeders from Feeder Source who were at the Atlanta repticon. I don’t know anything about them. Should I continue to try feeding the rat pups I purchased here after I finish the 2 week wait and offering of a smaller prey?

Don't feed for at least two weeks and when you do offer a feeder a size smaller than what you had been. I would feed a f/t mouse hopper. Dust the damp feeder with some NutriBAC, which is a powdered reptile probiotic that helps reptiles recover from stress after shipping, regurges, antibiotic treatments, etc. You can order it on Amazon while you wait for the next feeding.

Good advice on the NutriBAC, I’ll pick some up. Wouldn’t a mouse hopper be too small considering his weight? I think the local petstore only has small, med, large and fuzzy. Would one of these work? He started off on med and quickly went to large.

[tttaylorrr]

It smells really bad but better since I removed the rat. I’ll be honest, I don’t check my temps w/ the temp gun like I did when I 1^st set up the enclosure. I’ve been relying on the readouts on my HerpStat unit, temp and humidity gauges. This morning, the Herpstat was running on the correct settings, the hotside temp gauge was reading 92.8, ambient was 79.5 and humidity was 74%. I’m guessing the cool side surface temp is in the low 80s. I would of used the temp gun but didn’t want to disturb my BP. I can do that tonight if needed.
As for spooked, maybe noise from kids playing in the basement. But that’s just a wild guess. Hasn’t been an issue before.
I bought the feeders from Feeder Source who were at the Atlanta repticon. I don’t know anything about them. Should I continue to try feeding the rat pups I purchased here after I finish the 2 week wait and offering of a smaller prey?

i'd continue feeding the rat pups after the 2 weeks + smaller prey, but if another issue arrises i'd ditch them real quick.
since you can't be sure what the cause was, you just need to ensure it won't happen again. monitor your temps for a week to be sure they're correct, and just watch for abnormal behavior.

[bcr229]

Wouldn’t a mouse hopper be too small considering his weight? I think the local petstore only has small, med, large and fuzzy. Would one of these work? He started off on med and quickly went to large.

Small mouse then.

[ckuhn003]

I'm still having issues getting this out of my mind. The more I read the more it sounds serious; even reading a thread that if happens again it could result in death. What scares me the most is that I haven't been able to pin point what the reasoning was. The only thing that changed was that I went from f/t mice to f/t rats. The temps should not have changed because I have a HerpStat2 running as well as the Heater in the room set to run nonstop at 77 degrees

I was able to get some enclosure temps but I'm hesitant to get the best possible reading (temp gun on hot surface) because I don't want to disturbed a possibly stressed out BP.

Hot Side Surface: 93 (thermo reading w/ probe on UTH)
Cool Side Surface: 83 (taken w/ temp gun on surface)
Ambients (78-79ish)
Humidity:70ish

I'm hesitant to to attempt to remove that nasty smell from the enclosure or do anything which would involved opening the cage doors as to not disturb him in the next two weeks. For the record, I wiped down the cage as best I could when the rat was discovered so it's fairly clean....just the awful 'dead' smell.

Any additional advice would be helpful? This experience has been pretty traumatic so far.

[tttaylorrr]

Any additional advice would be helpful? This experience has been pretty traumatic so far.

for cleaning: use a vinegar solution to help get rid of the smell. i agree with you in that i'd wait the 2 weeks before messing with her too much (if the smell will allow it).

my only ever regurge happened with Yellow when i had an ambient heat spike a year or so ago. it hadn't lasted more than an hour but that was still long enough to stress him out to that point. i waited the two weeks out and he's been a good boy ever since, but i was TERRIFIED after that, tho. i literally thought i might have killed him and i was waiting to come home and find a corpse. it was traumatic for us both, but we managed to pull through.

as for the reason why it happened, i can't help you there. i'm sure this all would be easier for you if you knew what happened. just know that regurges do happen sometimes (and for a reason), it's terrible, and you must try your best to learn and avoid it in the future (you already are).

beeps bounce back 100% if proper care is provided in the aftermath. your noodle will be just fine.

[JodanOrNoDan]

I second the vinegar. It is probably the best thing to get rid of the stink.

Normally a cause can be found for a regurge. In this case it was probably the food change that upset the animal. Relax, as long as the animal is not exhibiting any other symptoms of illness it is probably fine.