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  1. #31
    Eric Alan's Avatar
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    Thanks, paulh. That's the reason I followed-up with my post below that one.

    Admittedly, Bumblebee wasn't the best example. Or even really a good one. It was only meant to illustrate the difference between showing a blended phenotype versus one that expresses both genes fully - not to imply that Pastel and Spider were allelic.
    Find me on Facebook: E.B. Ball Pythons and Instagram: @EBBallPythons

  2. #32
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    Re: Ball python single gene morph descriptions -need feedback

    I have no objection to the term "incomplete dominant" so long as it is defined as producing a blended phenotype in the heterozygote and makes no assumptions as to allelic products. My point has always been that incomplete dominance and codominance have different mechanisms that produce results that are difficult for the naked eye to distinguish.

    By the way, the biochemists have identified 5 mechanisms that can produce incomplete dominance or codominance. So I predict future changes in the definitions.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to paulh For This Useful Post:

    Eric Alan (11-23-2017)

  4. #33
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    Again, thanks everyone for the very helpful replies! Right now, like I said, the most important thing is for me to verify as many single-gene mutant phenotypes as possible, so that my dataset (and thus the statistical tests that result from it) are as robust as possible.

    I have created a Google spreadsheet with the basic parts of the dataset, as well as a "verification" column. What I need people to do is to go through this spreadsheet and put a "V" under the morphs that they know to be legitimate. In the comments, please leave your username and which morphs you verified, as I need to know my sources. If someone has already put a "V" next to one that you know to be legitimate, just put another V - that way I know that morphs with multiple "V"s have been examined by multiple people.

    In the comments, please feel free to make suggestions for descriptions and whatnot, as that will help me improve my dataset.

    Here is the link:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

  5. #34
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    Re: Ball python single gene morph descriptions -need feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by paulh View Post
    My point has always been that incomplete dominance and codominance have different mechanisms that produce results that are difficult for the naked eye to distinguish.

    By the way, the biochemists have identified 5 mechanisms that can produce incomplete dominance or codominance. So I predict future changes in the definitions.
    For your first point, do you have any sources that I could look at for this (preferably peer-reviewed papers)? This may be a topic I could address in my paper, if I have formal literature to back up any points I make.

    As to your second point, what biochemists are you referring to (ie what institution)? Is there a publication I could check out? So far, I think the most obvious mechanism for incomplete dominance would be allelic insufficiency, but understanding other types of phenomena that result in codominance or incomplete dominance would be highly useful.

  6. #35
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    Point 1:
    I can cite a genetics textbook used at the local university, but I have to get into the univ. library to get the information. I'll get back to you on that. In the meantime, you can look at the entry on "incomplete dominance" in Encyclopedia of genetics / editor, Jeffrey A. Knight ; project editor, Robert McClenaghan. 1999. 2 vols. ISBN : 089356978X. And see "Hemoglobin genetics" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_trait. Using different tests, it classifies the sickle cell gene as a recessive, an incomplete dominant, and a codominant mutant.

    Point 2:
    Wilkie, A. O. 1994. The molecular basis of genetic dominance. J Med Genet. 31(2): 81-98. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1049666/.

  7. #36
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    Thank you very much! This certainly helps - especially the latter source. I don't know how I missed that one in my literature search. I will certainly have to cite that in my discussion.

  8. #37
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    Re: Ball python single gene morph descriptions -need feedback

    Reference for point 1:
    Snustad, D. Peter, and Michael J. Simmons. Principles of Genetics. John H. Wiley, 6th ed., 2012, ISBN 978-0-470-90359-9.

    See Incomplete Dominance and Codominance, pp 63-64. This is essentially a shorter restatement of the entry in the Encyclopedia of Genetics.

    I will send pdf copies of all the source material to anyone who PMs me with their e-mail address.

  9. #38
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    I would like to say thank you again to everyone who has helped - right now I have narrowed my list down to 79 verified single-gene mutations. This is certainly enough to do my statistical analyses.

    However, my professor noted that one thing we should try to include in our publication is the origins of the different morphs. While I know that the vast majority were introduced via imported individuals displaying an aberrant phenotype, I would like to be able to note any exceptions, such as mutants that appeared in a clutch hatched from an imported wildtype female, or de-novo mutations that appeared in captive-bred lines. It would also be important to include some statistics on ball python importation (ie how many animals have entered the US pet trade through importation annually), so if anyone knows where I might find that information, that would be fantastic. The only "source" I was able to find was from the HSUS, and given that they have an investment in portraying the exotic pet trade as harmful, their numbers would not be a reliable source.

  10. #39
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    I would see if Micheal Cole of BallRoom PythonsSouth would know the import figures.
    Theresa Baker
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    "Stop being a wimpy monkey,; bare some teeth, steal some food and fling poo with the alphas. "

  11. #40
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    Outback Reptiles also does a ton of importing.
    Wicked ones now on IG & FB!6292

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