Super Pastel Pied vs Pastel Pied

[AbsoluteApril]

Please give your opinion if you think one or both are super pastel pieds.
Based on photos online and the amount of pattern/coloration, I believe they both are but I'm looking for feedback.
Pastel/super pastel pieds do not always show tons of head blushing from what I can tell as well so it's making it confusing.

first shed pics -
male:


female:


Together with the rest of the clutch, not great lighting, male on left, female on right:


Recent photos here, male first:

male:


Female:

female, tried to get a variety of closer shots of her head:



she was being so shy


What do you see? thanks!

[AbsoluteApril]

Oops, left out this, here's a shot of them together, male on left, female on right

[ElliotNess]

No way the 2nd one is. There is 0 blushing on its head.

[AbsoluteApril]

Here's a super pastel pied with similar (almost no) head blushing to my female:
http://markpetrosreptiles.com/killer...illerpied5.jpg

[ElliotNess]

Im also looking at the blacks and the 1st one seems much lighter. Usually when you have such a drastic contrast in the same clutch like that, that's how you usually figure out what is in the siblings.

[Godzilla78]

I am not an expert to identify, but I am interested in this thread as I will be breeding a super pastel pied...

[piedlover79]

The male for sure...the female, that one might need to be bred to be proven. I could kinda be convinced either way on her with a strong argument, in some of the pics she looks washed out enough, but in others there is some really hard black on there that makes me think more a reduced patterned pastel pied. At the same time it might be the obvious washed outness of the male in contrast making her look darker in comparison.

Hmmm, my answer is no help whatsoever. I guess if they were my snakes I wouldn't guarantee the female was a super but I wouldn't be surprised if she proved out. Both stunning snakes!

[Trisnake]

What was the pairing? Looks like you have a caramel or ghost in the clutch with those pieds. Doing some cool double recessive stuff?

I think the male is super pastel and the female a really nice pastel pied, she has some really crisp blacks on her tail where the males are more charcoal grey imo. I wouldn't be surprised if she proved super though. Perhaps being het for ghost or caramel is influencing her color, if that's something involved in the pairing.

[AbsoluteApril]

Yes, the pairing was pastel double het caramel pied x pastel double het caramel pied.

I keep going back and forth on the female, to me should could pass for either so it's kind of gratifying to see others say the same although I wish it was clear.
I appreciate all the input, if anyone else has opinions, please share.

thanks!

[Albert Clark]

With that pairing then, by definition they are both killer pieds (super pastel pieds) however they both have caramel influence. One is showing that influence more than the other.