In shedding process.

[ballpythonluvr]

Are you meaning during the white eyes and then the actually process of shedding? Or the 10-14 day period from start to finish. I cannot go that long without handling him. I get not to handle him when his eyes change and when his skin is coming off. But a lot say that there is anywhere from 1-5 days between the eye change and the actual shed. That's the time period I am wondering about?

Yes, I do mean the 10-14 day period from start to finish. You can handle if you want but I don't handle my ball pythons at all when in shed. I like to leave them alone and let them have time to rest up for the final process of when the skin comes off. I have tried handling in the past during the shed cycle when the eyes are opaque and did not have good results. The snake was very easily scared and timid and hissed at me a lot. I did not want to stress the animal out.

[predatorkeeper87]

Handling just to handle when you are being advised by people who have years of experience is selfish. And frankly, why ask questions if you aren't going to listen to the answers? You basically said in the original thread that you are going to handle him as much as you want regardless of what people say. So why ask?[\QUOTE].............

I said I will handle him as much as I want as long as it does not induce stress, hence the question of the timeline during shed when he should be left alone, because that is something I do not know.

You're going to have your snake for many years IF you learn from the experienced, knowledgeable people on here and apply what you learn. You care about your snake? Then think about your snake's needs and put your selfish desire to handle the animal on hold for a few days. You'll be ok and the snake will be better off.

...........

I ask very detailed questions and the problem is that, "experienced and knowledgable" people like you respond with a single statement that either does not answer the question, only answers a part of it which leaves more questions, or leaves a rude comment that accomplishes nothing because you feel entitled due to having more experience.

If the "experienced and knowledgeable" members of this forum really care then give me a full detailed answer, an explanation why, and what to expect. Otherwise what experience and knowledge are you really bringing to the table besides making yourself feel smarter than others.

I have made multiple threads with lots of very detailed questions, hoping someone would care enough to give detailed answers with explanations, and have never had a memeber give me a full answer, or an explanation as to the why behind their statement. Also realize that I get opposite info from multiple members and every site I visit. So don't unsult me or treat me like I am ignorant when I have put every moment of my free time to learn more and ask questions, only to find nothing but contradictory info, veterans of this forum who look down on beginners and don't care to instruct and teach but mostly throw around insults, and then the rare response that is actually helpful, but still doesn't explain the whole thing.

If if your so good then teach. Explain. Use detail. Share your knowledge to the full extent that it will help in each situation. That's why you are here correct? Or is it to make yourself feel cool because you can look at other people's questions and think they are silly because they haven't learned yet.?

this goes out to all you "veterans" of this site..... stop judging, educate, be helpful, explain, share wisdom, share knowledge, encourage, answers people's questions to the fullest of your knowledge. They ask specific things for a reason. Most importantly, realize you have influence and can make a difference IF you actually educate people in the subject of their question. That's the whole point of this forum no?

Lets be honest, that's starting to sound a lot like an excuse to not listen at all. Snakes in shed like to be left alone, its stressful for them and a time when their eyesight gets worse than it already is and their bodies are focused on removing the shed. If you need a detailed, cited and thoroughly researched scientific reason-it stresses them out. When in blue they have a tougher time seeing and therefore are more nervous, I would be too if all of a sudden my contact lenses were smeared with grease and a giant heat-emitted tree was grabbing for me. Secondly the snakes are producing the lymphatic fluid to separate the old skin from the new...handling would surely have an effect on this if done too much right? After blue and the fluid is reabsorbed, they have to focus on getting all of the old skin off which is a task on its own without being picked up and distracted from being able to do that.

Just don't hold your snake during shed, its going to cause more harm than good.

As a side note to the veteran call out, you can certainly expect much more cynical answers or no answers at all if you continue to be as defensive as you are. I've received quite a bit of advice from people doing this longer than I've been alive and even though sometimes the answers come back harsh in text form, I take the advice and USE IT. I don't get angry or butthurt over a response I took as harsh or cynical...that's just silly.

[Craiga 01453]

So my guy is going through his first pre shed signs. Here's my question...

He is not a timid snake and seems to enjoy hanging out and having back and cheek rubs( I know, I know, they just tolerate it is what everyone says) and does not ever show sign of stress from being handled. I do handle him daily, sometimes two or three times a day. He doesn't ball up, is active, and regularly eats so don't tell me it's bad to handle him that much. If he shows signs of stress or that he wants to hide I put him away immediately. Sorry I got off topic....

I understand what you're saying, and was in no way calling you ignorant or putting you down. As a whole, this forum is EXTREMELY helpful. But the people who see the positives and benefits are the ones who APPLY what they learn. The bold print in the above original thread is why I said what I said. It's tough to want to help somebody when they say things like that. You have received advice and basically said you don't care about the advice and do your own thing.
And NOT to insult you, that was never my intent, but being so new are you even sure what you're looking for in terms of "signs of stress"? He is not a timid snake? Compared to what other snakes you have experience with?

[QUOTE=gplegend11;2527309]
I said I will handle him as much as I want as long as it does not induce stress, hence the question of the timeline during shed when he should be left alone, because that is something I do not know.

The bottom line is that it is in the best interest of the animal to be minimally handled throughout the entire shedding process. The primary reason is stress. Snakes go through a LOT during the shedding process and the least we can do is not further stress them out for our own needs.

I'm not here to feel smart, I don't claim to know everything, not even close!! I'm here to learn as well. Nor do I need validation from anybody online to feel "cool". That ship sailed long ago. I'm 38 years old and am WAY past needing to feel cool. Nor am I judging. I'm simply pointing out examples of your lack of experience and you choosing to do your own thing, despite what people are advising. I don't understand the point of an OP asking a question if they aren't willing to listen to what people are telling them. It's basically spitting in the face of those who have taken their time to try to help.

As far as full, detailed answers, there is a basically unlimited world of knowledge at your fingertips, dig in and read. Learn about the animal through research and due diligence. Many of us started in this hobby long before internet was readily available and forums like this even existed. We went to libraries, read books and magazines, etc... we were not spoon fed. You want answers, but you don't seem to want to listen if it's not what you want to hear. People are less likely to take the time to help when it falls on deaf ears. If you're asking questions and applying what you are learning people will be more inclined to dig deeper and give more thorough replies. Maybe show that you're learning and applying what you're learning rather than saying "I can't go 10-14 days without handling my snake." You went YEARS without handling a snake and you have YEARS to handle the snake you have now. So please put the snake's needs first.

I'm sorry if you were insulted by my reply, that was not my intent. It's just frustrating to see people asking for help but not willing to do what they are advised, especially for their own, personal, selfish reasons. If you wanted a pet you could handle all the time, a snake was the wrong choice.

[Craiga 01453]

lets be honest, that's starting to sound a lot like an excuse to not listen at all. Snakes in shed like to be left alone, its stressful for them and a time when their eyesight gets worse than it already is and their bodies are focused on removing the shed. If you need a detailed, cited and thoroughly researched scientific reason-it stresses them out. When in blue they have a tougher time seeing and therefore are more nervous, i would be too if all of a sudden my contact lenses were smeared with grease and a giant heat-emitted tree was grabbing for me. Secondly the snakes are producing the lymphatic fluid to separate the old skin from the new...handling would surely have an effect on this if done too much right? After blue and the fluid is reabsorbed, they have to focus on getting all of the old skin off which is a task on its own without being picked up and distracted from being able to do that.

Just don't hold your snake during shed, its going to cause more harm than good.

As a side note to the veteran call out, you can certainly expect much more cynical answers or no answers at all if you continue to be as defensive as you are. I've received quite a bit of advice from people doing this longer than i've been alive and even though sometimes the answers come back harsh in text form, i take the advice and use it. I don't get angry or butthurt over a response i took as harsh or cynical...that's just silly.

^^^^thank you^^^^

[gplegend11]

that is all I wanted was a clear, concise, and educated answer. When I notice he is showing signs of shed, until his skin is off, I will not handle him. Now I am comfortable doing that because of the clarification. You guys have to remember that much of what seems basic and obvious to you guys is not at all for begginers.

And to to clarify to you guys, I meant to not tell me it was bad to handle him on a regular basis when he is not in shed cycle, not during his shed cycle. Some people have said hold them no more than once or twice a week, others say as much as you want if they show no signs of stress. I will have many more snakes and I'm sure some will only be once a week handlers, whereas I am intuitive enough, even though he is my first, to see that this guy is relaxed when handled. Not to mention as my first python the initial excitement is still there.

So thanks for the clarification and actually explaining it to me. Now I understand, unlike before where I didn't see any issue with holding him between his eyes returning to normal and his skin coming off. Now I don't have to wonder and am left with no unanswered part of my question.

[Craiga 01453]

that is all I wanted was a clear, concise, and educated answer. When I notice he is showing signs of shed, until his skin is off, I will not handle him. Now I am comfortable doing that because of the clarification. You guys have to remember that much of what seems basic and obvious to you guys is not at all for begginers.

And to to clarify to you guys, I meant to not tell me it was bad to handle him on a regular basis when he is not in shed cycle, not during his shed cycle. Some people have said hold them no more than once or twice a week, others say as much as you want if they show no signs of stress. I will have many more snakes and I'm sure some will only be once a week handlers, whereas I am intuitive enough, even though he is my first, to see that this guy is relaxed when handled. Not to mention as my first python the initial excitement is still there.

So thanks for the clarification and actually explaining it to me. Now I understand, unlike before where I didn't see any issue with holding him between his eyes returning to normal and his skin coming off. Now I don't have to wonder and am left with no unanswered part of my question.

I certainly see your point, and I hope you know that the vast majority of the community on this forum truly wants to help. I can't speak for everybody, and I know there are exceptions, but I can safely say most of us want to help because we are passionate about these animals. We want what's best for the animals AND their keepers. I personally love keeping snakes as pets for many reasons, but it can be tricky and a bit discouraging at first. This forum is great for getting people over that tricky/discouraging hump and to the point where they aren't stressing over their new animal and are enjoying the animal.

That being said, I also understand your initial excitement, believe me, I get it. But the reasons people advise letting new snakes settle in for a while is long-term. Trust me, I love having my snakes out so I can hang out with them and enjoy them, that's a big part of why I got back into keeping them. I need to show some restraint with new snakes though, for their benefit. It gets easier when it's not your first, but it's still tempting. And once you have a few, it's easier because when the temptation kicks in you can just grab another. This comes into play with shedding, feeding, etc...

I certainly didn't mean to get off on the wrong foot with helping you out. I honestly do care and want to see you enjoy your snake (snakes, when the time is right to add another, or three, or six...hahaha). You're doing fine and I think you're going to enjoy this hobby for many years to come.
Good luck, we're here to help if you need us.

[gplegend11]

Thanks, I will have many questions. In fact, starting a new thread now

[predatorkeeper87]

that is all I wanted was a clear, concise, and educated answer. When I notice he is showing signs of shed, until his skin is off, I will not handle him. Now I am comfortable doing that because of the clarification. You guys have to remember that much of what seems basic and obvious to you guys is not at all for begginers.

And to to clarify to you guys, I meant to not tell me it was bad to handle him on a regular basis when he is not in shed cycle, not during his shed cycle. Some people have said hold them no more than once or twice a week, others say as much as you want if they show no signs of stress. I will have many more snakes and I'm sure some will only be once a week handlers, whereas I am intuitive enough, even though he is my first, to see that this guy is relaxed when handled. Not to mention as my first python the initial excitement is still there.

So thanks for the clarification and actually explaining it to me. Now I understand, unlike before where I didn't see any issue with holding him between his eyes returning to normal and his skin coming off. Now I don't have to wonder and am left with no unanswered part of my question.

outside of shed or illness I generally advise 3-4 times a week handling at most. They learn to know you aren't going to eat them, however they never love the idea of being handled.

People get passionate about these animals as I believe was explained above, so always expect some extremely passionate answers when posing questions which will indefinitely come off as smug or rude, sift through the emotional parts and find the info. Glad to see this conversation was turned into something more productive by the way.