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  1. #11
    BPnet Veteran Oxylepy's Avatar
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    Re: Butters and Lessers, are there distinctions?

    Quote Originally Posted by asplundii View Post
    Also, rebranding the lines a la Pastel is not going to help in a case like Red's because, while there are different lines of Pastel, if you have a SuperPastel from two different lines once you breed it out I can just about guarantee you cannot ID which babies carry the allele from a specific line.
    Alright, I'm kind of confused by this statement, I think we're on the same page with it, but something is being lost. What I was suggesting is a third generic term to incorporate offspring of exactly Red's situation. Leaving the two lines as distinct for those who would want them distinct, but as lines of the generic form. While the generic form would be for uncertain lineage.

    If you breed 2 lines of Pastel together for a super, then that super pastel breeds and the offspring are unable to be identified as one line or the other, what you have as Pastels, the generic term.

    Also, Platty is just me throwing that up against the wall, I even said the name would need to come from the community and was using that as an example (a personally liked one, but I'm not that attached to it)
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  2. #12
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    Heres the thread mentioned above, it was a little experiment on this very topic: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...er+butter+vote

    They are the same morph. Any "difference" people point out can be seen in any of the lines of butter or lesser. The reason for these differences is genes other than the lesser/butter gene. A combination of potentially hundreds of genes are responsible for the traits you see and call differences. The silvery sides, yellow/tan coloring, contrast, white outlines, ect. can either be in butter or lessers. We call these polygenetic traits. Its the same reason some pastels are bright yellow and others are brown.

    while butter and lesser are considered same morph different line, there are separate lines of both butter and lesser themselves. The original lessers was made in 2001 from the first imported platty. The original butters were also made in 2001. This is the reason we had two different lines each having their own polygenetic traits that stuck with the morph until they were outcrossed enough to see they were the same. But then RDR imported another animal he called butter, as it looked like the original butters. Sean from EBN imported a lesser line, Noah used to sell an "african" line of lesser. I've heard that Kevin imported his line of lesser. So we have lines that also have their own lines. Fun stuff eh?

    As for the naming changes, I highly doubt you would get this notoriously stubborn hobby to agree on something, I mean we still call them co-dom traits right? If we could merge them, I would say use the more common name, which I think lesser easily wins and if you feel you need to keep the line name in there, have it be something like Lesser (Butter line). Just like Pastel (Bell line). It wouldn't be the shock of a total rename and gives a default answer for when you have something like a butter lesser bel, just like when you have lemon/bell super pastels.


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  4. #13
    BPnet Veteran Oxylepy's Avatar
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    Which would be prefectly reasonable either way it goes. But, do we have any proof of lessers/butters being the same thing? And any proof of general consensus being they are the same?

    While I've been on here for a long time and have seen it develop as such, I don't know of any polls or places where this information is proved out.
    Ball Pythons 1.1 Lesser, Pastel
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  5. #14
    BPnet Lifer OhhWatALoser's Avatar
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    What's your qualification of proof? Honestly for me it was just looking at enough animals to see the "lesser traits" also showed up in butters and vise versa. As for general consensus, the previous posts on multiple forums and facebook are overwhelming in agreeance of it being the same.


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  7. #15
    BPnet Veteran Lizardlicks's Avatar
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    Personally I like the name butter better. More food pun potential

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    BPnet Veteran redshepherd's Avatar
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    Re: Butters and Lessers, are there distinctions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizardlicks View Post
    Personally I like the name butter better. More food pun potential
    LOL same, it kinda gives a nicer feeling than "lesser"! I honestly think it's part of what makes people say things like "I like butter better, because they look more buttery", because they like the word. Haha

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    BPnet Veteran HannahLou's Avatar
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    Re: Butters and Lessers, are there distinctions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post
    But, do we have any proof of lessers/butters being the same thing? And any proof of general consensus being they are the same?
    Absolutely! As has been pointed out over and over, besides normal variations within any of the same morph, they both look the same and do the same thing when added to any combo. I don't see how it gets any clearer that they're the same thing. It's not like someone looking at a mojave and a phantom and not being able to see a difference which isn't that drastic but we know a super Mojo and a super phantom look completely different.

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