How To Switch Stubborn Baby Sumatran From Live Mice To Frozen/Thawed

[Aedryan Methyus]

As some of you may know, I became the proud new owner of a pair of 2016 Sumatrans a little over one month ago. The male has not ever missed a meal since day one (frozen/thawed hoppers). Unfortunately, the female has been refusing frozen/thawed every 7 days. Last Monday, on feeding day, I finally gave in and tossed a live mouse in her tub and it was gone when I checked in on her later and I expect the same again today when I feed. At this point, i'm just happy she is eating, but I want to get her off of mice completely and on frozen/thawed hoppers ASAP. For some reason, my Boa is the only one of my snakes, who will eat if you are dangling/wiggling a frozen/thawed rodent in front of him. All the rest of my snakes (Balls, Bloods, Sumatrans) will only eat if the rodent is left in their enclosures. With this girl, I have tried dangling and wiggling frozen/thawed rodents and leaving them lay in her tub and i've even tried pi$$ing her off a bit with them and she simply refuses...

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to get this stubborn little girl switched over?

[AbsoluteApril]

My little blood was incredibly picky and took forever to switch. First to switch to f/t and then to switch over from mice to rats.

The trick for mine to finally start taking f/t steadily was to make sure the prey was super heated, not just nice and warm from being thawed like my other snakes are happy with, but really, really warm. To this day, he'll usually only take if it's very warm even though he's now steadily accepting f/t rat pups. The switch from f/t mice to rats was mostly just persistence and making sure the rat pup was no bigger than the hopper mice he was taking before. The larger prey seemed to intimidate him at first. I dangle near the hide (he's in his hide 90% of the time) or move it around on the ground in front or near the front of the hide.

edit to add - mine won't take if left in the cage or if I start 'teasing' him with it. If he's going to take it, it's only upon the first or so introduction of the prey into the enclosure.

I wish you luck!

[Aedryan Methyus]

Thanks, April. I usually just leave my frozen rodents sit out in the snake room for a couple/few hours. So, they only thaw to room temperature. I think i'll start heating one up with my heat gun for the stubborn girl. I definitely wouldn't be able to re-freeze it if she refuses it that way, but there is no doubt that my Boa will snatch the tasty little dessert right up at least... lol

[zina10]

I agree, absolutely warm it up!

I feed nothing but FT and so far every time I have gotten a baby that was on live, I got it switched immediately without any problems. But the way I thaw out the rodents leaves them quite warm..

[Zincubus]

As some of you may know, I became the proud new owner of a pair of 2016 Sumatrans a little over one month ago. The male has not ever missed a meal since day one (frozen/thawed hoppers). Unfortunately, the female has been refusing frozen/thawed every 7 days. Last Monday, on feeding day, I finally gave in and tossed a live mouse in her tub and it was gone when I checked in on her later and I expect the same again today when I feed. At this point, i'm just happy she is eating, but I want to get her off of mice completely and on frozen/thawed hoppers ASAP. For some reason, my Boa is the only one of my snakes, who will eat if you are dangling/wiggling a frozen/thawed rodent in front of him. All the rest of my snakes (Balls, Bloods, Sumatrans) will only eat if the rodent is left in their enclosures. With this girl, I have tried dangling and wiggling frozen/thawed rodents and leaving them lay in her tub and i've even tried pi$$ing her off a bit with them and she simply refuses...

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to get this stubborn little girl switched over?

Apologies for this copy and paste but it was me who wrote it in the first place

This method WORKS if done properly ...
I wait until evening as they're nocturnal of course . I let the rodent thaw out in the reptile room so they get the smell ..
Then I warm up the mouse / rat with a hairdryer and offer with tongs IMMEDIATELY whilst still warm . If refused simply repeat the heating and offering as many times as needed. .
A couple of mine will only strike feed from within their hides so I dangle the warm rodent in front of the hide's entrance - usually works but if it fails simply reheat the rodent with a hairdryer and immediately offer again whilst it's still warm , continue until it's grabbed ...
I always wait until evenings to feed as they're nocturnal of course .

Incidentally , if it shows no interest at all not even a tongue flicker maybe it's best to leave for a week or so.

[dboeren]

I've always used hot water to heat up my frozen rodents, just fill a bowl and let them soak in it to warm up. If the hairdryer method doesn't appeal to your snake, you might give that version a try too.

But yeah, they sense the body temp of their prey so it doesn't surprise me that they might not be interested in a room temperature meal.

[Aedryan Methyus]

Thanks you guys. Zincubus, I'm going to try heating up f/t with a heat gun. The only problem I foresee is, this snake refuses to eat even live mice from tongs. I always have to leave it in her tub. So, depending on how long it takes her to get around to eating a heated up f/t rodent it probably won't stay warm for too long. I'll just have to try it and see...

[zina10]

The reason I prefer to heat up in hot water is that the heat seems to penetrate throughout the rodent. Once the "outside" of the rodent cools, the core stays warmer, longer. Just like it would be in nature when an animal just dies.

I've never had good luck with the hair dryer and such methods. They heat the rodent really well, and fast, but only the outside of the rodent is hot, and it cools very fast again. To get the heat through and through you would have to blowdry for a long time, making sure you don't cook the rodent.
I'm sure that works for a some people, though, it just didn't for me, I prefer the hot water method.

Some people like one method over the other, for different reasons. Which is why its so great that there are different ways to go about this. What your snake prefers, you'll have to figure out

Try to get a rodent nice and warm. Don't offer it until late that night and just leave it with the head sticking into the hide and then leave the room, have it dark. No more disturbances.
See if that will do the trick

[Aedryan Methyus]

I just wanted to give a little update on this picky little girl and see if you guys have any other suggestions. For the past two feedings I have offered her well heated frozen/thawed hoppers late at night and she still refuses to eat them, whether I dangle them in front of her or leave them in her enclosure overnight. So, reluctantly, I keep giving in and giving her live mice the next day... I will say that she definitely acted a lot more interested in the well heated f/t than she ever has one at room temperature. She actually looked like she was going to take it while I was dangling it in front of her. She sat straight up out of her tub flickering her tongue at it and smelling it.

Do you guys think I would be better off withholding live mice altogether until she gives in and eats f/t? Do you think she could be learning that all she has to do is refuse the f/t and she'll get a nice, succulent live mouse? If that is the case, she is even a lot more stubborn than me, because when I first got her she refused f/t for a month straight without getting a live mouse... lol

My biggest concern with withholding live mice altogether is, would not eating for long periods affect her development negatively or stunt her growth?

[AbsoluteApril]

If she refuses and then you go right ahead with live, she has no need to switch, she'll keep getting live.
Sometimes you have to wait them out.
I went weeks of mine refusing before he'd take at times (multiple times).
Stunting isn't going to happen over a few months time, I wouldn't worry about it.
If she starts losing weight then you may have to give in and give her a live but really for mine, it was a 'who is more persistent' waiting game and I finally won.