**GRAPHIC** Reminder to always monitor live feedings!!!

[highqualityballz]

To be fair this is easily a mistake someone who does not know better could make. I think it is easy to forget that as obsessed with these reptiles are we are that the general public knows only a small amount of information about snakes that is in majority misinformation. I think the OP point was this is what can happen when snakes are fed live rats irresponsibly and your point is that this will not happen if you feed live responsibly. In reality it seems you both agree responsible live feeding is a must.

Agreed. Thank you!

[Trisnake]

So you warn people for something no intelligent human being would do?

I guess you have little faith in the people here.

TBH there are a LOT of things experienced keepers here believe to be common sense that some owners (usually new) just don't even think about. Things that have "danger bad idea" written all over them may seem perfectly fine to someone who is not familiar with the hazards of their practices. Lots of people
go to the pet store, pick up a rat, drop it in their snakes enclosure as soon as they get home, walk away and never think twice about it. They're not all morons, they just don't know any better. Forums like this are where people learn to know better... even if the picture is an extreme example and obviously took place over an extended period of time, it definitely shows why you shouldn't toss a starved and panicked feeder in an enclosure and go to bed. Even if it probably won't look like that, a dead snake is something you very well may wake up to. People need to know why priming a feeder and supervision during feedings is so important-- full, calm, well cared for feeders are the safest feeders.

Uneducated does not equal unintelligent.

EDIT: AntTheDestroyer beat me to it!

[highqualityballz]

TBH there are a LOT of things experienced keepers here believe to be common sense that some owners (usually new) just don't even think about. Things that have "danger bad idea" written all over them may seem perfectly fine to someone who is not familiar with the hazards of their practices. Lots of people
go to the pet store, pick up a rat, drop it in their snakes enclosure as soon as they get home, walk away and never think twice about it. They're not all morons, they just don't know any better. Forums like this are where people learn to know better... even if the picture is an extreme example and obviously took place over an extended period of time, it definitely shows why you shouldn't toss a starved and panicked feeder in an enclosure and go to bed. Even if it probably won't look like that, a dead snake is something you very well may wake up to. People need to know why priming a feeder and supervision during feedings is so important-- full, calm, well cared for feeders are the safest feeders.

Uneducated does not equal unintelligent.

EDIT: AntTheDestroyer beat me to it!

Exactly!

[StillBP]

But after some time one should make the rounds and check on everybody.

This. I feed live. I do so because it is convenient for me. I also have several that simply refuse f/t and I do not wish to feed both. Not two weeks ago I put a rat in with my female black pastel. Watched her hit and coil. Put her tub back. Continued feeding. Ten minutes later I checked to see who had eaten to remove any live feeders. And the rat in with the black pastel was alive, if a bit ruffled. Now I saw her strike and coil. For some reason she let go. But she ate perfectly normal next feeding. As long as you are mindful you will not have any problem feeding live

[Spiritserpents]

We had a ball python come into the vet hospital where I used to work because an owner left the rat in overnight. There were several superficial areas of skin loss, and one hole that went right into the coelomic cavity of the snake. We had to anesthetize her and sew adjacent ribs together in order to close the hole. One of the other techs ended up adopting her from that person. So bad wounds do happen from rats being left overnight, which also happens.

Also, live feeding when the snake is blind can lead to instant issues, like my rat snake that I took on who was bit into the sinus cavities in the face and had a major infection because the owner only ever fed live. She never left the rats in with him, but because he couldn't see he was being constantly bit by his prey after striking and coiling.

So, live feeding can be done in a way to minimize risk, but even watching a snake can't prevent an injury if a bad strike occurs. Most of the time those bites will be harmless. Sometimes they can be severe. It's something you have to be prepared for and accepting of if you feed live.

[Craiga 01453]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here...
I can see the points from both sides here, but in this case I can't see any reason the OP was wrong in posting as a warning or educational tool. Let's be honest, plenty of questions come up on this forum that many of us shake our heads at, roll our eyes at, and probably lose a little faith in humanity when we read them. Some people just don't know any better. Sometimes it is plain stupidity or ignorance, sometimes it is somebody wanting to know how far they can push boundaries without "serious" consequences, sometimes they simply don't know any better due to a lack of education on the topic. You often hear the saying that "no question is a stupid question", and as long as the person asking has a genuine desire to learn, I agree.
....so, I see no harm in the OP starting this thread, as an educational tool for newbies. Who knows, there may be somebody out there who has the mindset that snakes eat live rats in nature, they cohabitate, so why can't they ''cohabitate" within the enclosure until the snake decides it's time to eat it? Maybe somebody who works a night shift stopped by the local pet store to grab a feeder rat while out running errands during the day, drops the rat in the enclosure and heads to work, figuring "the snake is nocturnal by nature, so it'll eat tonight while I'm at work". By the end of an 8+ hour shift, a lot of damage may have been inflicted on the snake (obviously not to the degree in the OPs pic)....
Maybe this thread prevents that?

Like I started with, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I can certainly see why the OP felt the need to share here.
However, it could have been worded better and elaborated on before people started throwing digs at one another....

[PitOnTheProwl]

This is another case of the internet making someone's ignorance famous.

In a time where it is way too easy to research everything I cannot believe how stupid people can still be.

[Zincubus]

[QUOTE=Spiritserpents;2521112
.

So, live feeding can be done in a way to minimize risk, but even watching a snake can't prevent an injury if a bad strike occurs. Most of the time those bites will be harmless. Sometimes they can be severe. It's something you have to be prepared for and accepting of if you feed live.[/QUOTE]

I've always wondered about that , I see these people who claim to watch intently whilst the rat is still in there but if the rat bites the snake in the eye how can the owner react in time as its already too late !?

Also how do those who have big collections who are LIVE feeding 30 , 50 or hundreds .. are they really ABLE to make sure every rat gets eaten ??


Just things that puzzle me somewhat never having done LIVE feeding .


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[OneEyedFox]

If you buy your mice, not breed them, you won't know if the mouse has been eating or not. If you do happen to pick up a mouse that hasn't been eating, and leave it unattended with the snake, this is something that could happen. I used to feed live, and I made sure to watch and see Calliope actually kill the rodent before leaving her unattended with it. I know that rodents won't instantly just start eating and picking away at the flesh and muscles of the snake, but you don't know the mouse's back story if you buy it therefore you shouldn't leave it unattended for an extended period of time. This won't happen every time but it can happen. If you breed your own rodents and know the feeder had been eating well, then you're a lot more safe, but I myself wouldn't leave the live rodent alone unattended. Just be careful when you know nothing about the rodent, be responsible, that's all it really takes. I didn't switch to f/t just because of rodent injuries to snakes, I know that can happen, but it was also because of financial reasons. I still feed love from time to time too, I'm just really careful when I do it, and I think that's the message of this post. Just be careful.


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[Zincubus]

Soooo it's well documented that I'm against LIVE feeding just because it's something I could never actually do .... I'm the guy who picks up worms in the rain so they don't get tread on .

It's also simply not accepted over here in the UK .

The MAIN thing that kinda baffles me about all this LIVE feeding stuff is WHY do it in the first place - especially as it takes so much longer and has risks involved !??

I can kinda understand it if you're feeding 20+ at a time like me which costs a fortune and by feeding LIVE you can save a lot of money ...but that doesn't apply to most in here really ....


Also I keep reading about these snakes who will NOT eat thawed and it's kinda accepted that some won't eat thawed and they have to be fed LIVE ... it's been mentioned a couple of times in this very thread . See I don't understand why we don't have this problem in the UK , I've had about a hundred snakes over the years including Corns , Kings , Retics , Burms , Garters , Boas , even the shy ones like Sand Boas , Cape Files , Trans Pecos and loads of Royals / Ball pythons and not one single snake has EVER refused to eat thawed frozen mice / rats ...

Sure you get the odd one who goes off the food for a few weeks during the breeding season like my adult Corn snake is doing currently and the odd Royal who simply stops eating for a month or so but they always end up eating thawed rodents , no problems at all ..

I get the different culture thing and that LIVE feeding is accepted and is even considered the norm but that doesn't explain why the UK doesn't have all these snakes who don't eat thawed !?!?


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