How Long To Let New Arrivals Settle In Before Handling?/Tips For Taming?

[Aedryan Methyus]

Hey guys,
Last Friday a pair of 2016 Sumatrans (chrome heads) and a 2015 Matrix Het T+ Albino female were delivered. Other than pulling their tubs out to check temps and humidity (both of which seem to be perfect) I have pretty much left them alone to get settled in. According to the breeder, their feeding day has been on Mondays, so I attempted to feed them yesterday. I got the female Sumatran to eat, but the other two wouldn't eat. So, I guess i'll just wait and try again next Monday... Anyway, just from the little bit of interaction I have had with these three so far, I can say they are pretty much vicious as Hell! lol They will basically throw their whole bodies up out of the tub and try to bite my face off! I knew what I was getting into with these species, so this is no surprise. I knew they would take some work to get tamed down...

So, my question is, how long would you guys recommend that I let them get settled in before I start trying to handle them? And, other than hook training and starting out with gloves, does anyone know of any other methods for getting these species to tame down? The breeder said that they have had very little handling...

~ Aedryan

[Jowens]

My experience with short tails is limited to the two Borneo's and one Sumatran that I have, the oldest of which was hatched last May. In the case of all three, I have waited a week to a week and a half after delivery, regardless of date last fed, and am three for three in getting them to eat on the first try. My most recent acquisition ate f/t even though he had been eating pre-killed. So I would give it a few more days before trying again.
As far as getting them tamed, I have no advice. My first Borneo and my Sumatran have been picture perfect so far. Neither has shown any aggression. I did wait a couple of weeks after delivery before even attempting to handle either, and they both seemed to settle in beautifully. I did follow advice that i've read: keep early handling sessions short and sweet, and end on a good note, with the snake calm.
My new Borneo, on the other hand, is nervous and defensive, and I have already had a bad experience with him when he defecated less than one week in, and got very unhappy when moved him for cleaning. I had already been in his tub the day before to change a soaking paper towel, and apparently all that was too much. He struck at me several times but I persisted in holding him until he transitioned to flight mode. I don't know if this was the correct way to handle the situation, but I was unprepared for it. That was nine days ago, and he has holed up in his water bowl since then. I did put a smaller bowl of water in there for him several days ago, so I wouldn't have to mess with him to get him fresh water, and went back in there last night to freshen it up. He became wary, assuming a defensive posture, but did not strike. Today, he is out of his water bowl for the first time since the mishap, which I take to be a good sign.

[Jowens]

Oops, double post.

[Aedryan Methyus]

Thanks for sharing your experience, J. Much appreciated! How long have you had your three?

[zina10]

How have you set them up ? Can you make a picture ? Do you know how the breeder had them set up?
How are your temps ? Wrong temps can make them testy...

If you got them on Friday, it might have been to early to try feeding on Monday. Esp. if they don't feel safe yet.

Are they in a Rack? Tub? Cage? Size?
How is the Heat in the different areas?
Hides?
Substrate?

[GoingPostal]

I don't bother with handling until they are eating regularly and honestly haven't found handling to make a difference any more than simple time would. My first blood was very unhappy about being held as a baby and I did short times out with me a couple times a week, my 2015 bstp boy was jumpy as can be, lots of striking and very little handling as he isn't a good eater, even so he's a lot calmer nowadays. Most are all huff and bluff although if you push them they will snap at you but you would barely feel it at this age, glove up if you feel the need but I just grab them out quickly with confidence. Short tails tend to be kind of nervous and nippy when they are young, move with confidence and not too fast, they prefer to hang out on your lap or on the floor. Not held in the air. Good luck!

[Aedryan Methyus]

Thanks you guys!

@GoingPostal - So, you think just leaving them alone for a good long while and not handling them at all tames them down just as well as handling them for a couple of minutes a few times a day?

@zina10 - I have them in a melamine 10 - 28 qt. rack. Yes, I know that is probably too big for the 2016's and could be partially to blame for their defensiveness. However, the tubs aren't just wide open and empty. I am using newspaper for substrate and balled up newspaper pretty much consumes the tub to take up some space. They have a hide on the warm side and a big bowl of water that is more than big enough for them to soak in on the cool side. Each rack is heated with 6" THG, which runs to a Vivarium Electronics VE-100 thermostat. Temps are running between 85 and 87 degrees on the warm side and 76 - 78 on the cool side. Humidity is running about 80%...

[zina10]

Well, husbandry sounds great ! So does the setup.

I would def. NOT handle "a few times the day". I think what makes them the most nervous is the initial "picking up". Which probably makes YOU the most nervous, too You don't want to put them through this stress a few times the day.
Follow Going Postals advice. Don't drag it out. Let them know you are "there", like a touch with the hook, and then just gently but deliberately pick one up and immediately support the body. If they "flip flop" a bit or musk or nip, try to ignore that and find a "quiet" space and just sit with them. No walking around, or stuff moving around them. No putting anything near their face and keep YOUR face away. Just sit and let them learn nothing bad happens. Then return them to the tub gently. Once you move they probably tense up again, but keep moving deliberate but slow, no jerking or jumping or dropping them into their tub quickly.

Its not how often you handle, but HOW you handle. You want good experiences. If you overwhelm them, it will not be a good experience. Time and patience. Around 10 to 15 minutes per handling, not every day. Not the day before feeding or 2 days after.

If gloves make you feel better, try to find those that are used for working around roses and such. They are soft but strong leather. You will have a better "feel" of the snake, unlike with thick or stiff gloves. Some Rose Gloves have panels of stiffer leather up the forearm, some are for hands only.

You are there to observe them, and you will have to "read" your snake. They are all a bit different. You can judge best to see what works.

"Flooding" and overwhelming them does not work. Gentle, patience and building trust does. Some need more time, some less. Just stop the handling before they might get to agitated, always try to end on a good note.

[Aedryan Methyus]

All excellent advice, Zina. Thanks! I'm aching to get my hands on them again! The little Sumatrans especially are so cute that I just wanna kiss their faces off! lol When they arrived I was able to ease them right out of their bags into my hand without too much incident. Just as you said, when I stood up to put them in their tubs they got nervous and tensed up and started flopping around was all. The strikes have happened with all three since, while just looking at them with my face a little too close to their tubs... lol I think they will be fine once they're settled in and realize nothing is going to eat them, though.

I was introduced to a local Sumatran breeder by a friend at a reptile show this past Sunday, who produces the blackest of the black Sumatrans. I was happy to be able to spend a good hour just sitting and talking with him over lunch. He claims that his offspring are always docile as can be from day one. He will have clutches available within the next couple of months and I will definitely be picking up another pair from him!

[zina10]

All excellent advice, Zina. Thanks! I'm aching to get my hands on them again! The little Sumatrans especially are so cute that I just wanna kiss their faces off! lol When they arrived I was able to ease them right out of their bags into my hand without too much incident. Just as you said, when I stood up to put them in their tubs they got nervous and tensed up and started flopping around was all. The strikes have happened with all three since, while just looking at them with my face a little too close to their tubs... lol I think they will be fine once they're settled in and realize nothing is going to eat them, though.

I was introduced to a local Sumatran breeder by a friend at a reptile show this past Sunday, who produces the blackest of the black Sumatrans. I was happy to be able to spend a good hour just sitting and talking with him over lunch. He claims that his offspring are always docile as can be from day one. He will have clutches available within the next couple of months and I will definitely be picking up another pair from him!

All that actually sounds very promising. That's how mine acted as well. He only got nervous with a lot of moving around or if something came close to his head. He watched my face closely !! Just think, we are a HUGE heat source, and our heads/faces are the hottest part. It hast to be scary to them when this giant animal swoops towards them, mouth first. LOL

I find they learn quickly, though. Which is why I find it important to keep it positive, short and sweet. I only handled mine 3 times and can already tell a difference. The first time his little head was tightly pressed to his neck, face up and eyes "big". He felt tense. Now he "watches" my face, but he is not as tight and ready to strike. I am careful not to swoop my face toward him, I also don't put the phone in his face for pictures (thats the only thing he struck at, the day he arrived, and no wonder..) I can move a lot more, my head and hands, while I sit with him. He will be aware, but not so nervous. Only when I get up or walk around will he tense a bit. But no flopping or flipping out.

You will learn how much they can "take" and how far you can go. And then stop before it gets to much.

Even if you get a "puppydog" tame one in the future, you really shouldn't do much more in the beginning either. While they might act tame and are sweet, they could still stress and not feed well. Its not such a bad thing to start with a nervous/defensive baby. It will teach us patience and to "read" a snake well. Its a challenge and a learning experience. And when they are a relaxed chill snake, we will feel a sense of accomplishment