Snake Breeding Business - concerns. Opinions?

[cayley]

I wanted to start a topic just to clarify some things for me about the snake breeding business. As I noticed Mr Sully posted previously, there are a lot of people posting about breeding their snakes or even asking on like, yahoo answers and silly things like that... and I really worry about the care for these animals. I understand that reptiles are not affectionate (if that's the correct term, at least on a human level) but the obsession with new morphs seems super inhumane to me... like the spider gene. I mean there are a bunch of animals that seem to have serious health issues and they're also being bred en masse to create new visible morphs and it's great that hobbyists will keep so many but I also see tons of snakes on Craigslist and in pet stores...

I just find it a little bit freaky how many people are just constantly making and these snakes are having their health damaged at detriment. I also wonder what will happen to all of these snakes when they're massive and if their owners potentially pass on before they die. I mean it would be so difficult to find someone to take in a library of fully mature snakes. It just seems like there is this huge obsession with the bright bold patterns and colours on hatchlings and it kind of disgusts me. Yeah, they are fun to look at! Yeah, I think they are super pretty and I myself got a flashy morph as my first BP! But what about all those tons of normals?

I guess I'd love to hear some feedback from the side of a breeder or hobbyist who owns many snakes. I'm feeling concerned.

[cchardwick]

I guess the same thing can be said of any animal such as dogs, cats, fish, etc... There are two sides to the coin, just like liberal and conservative talk show hosts LOL. Let's hypothetically say that we have the power to ban breeding of all animals and just put a stop to it. In just 12 months all the mice would die of old age, and in 3 years there would be no rats. In 20 years no dogs or cats, and in 150 years not even any people on the planet! Breeders keep the hobby going and replace animals as they die of old age or are used for other purposes such as food for us or other animals. If you were to go out and try to buy some turkeys to breed you would find that most are on the brink of extinction because the small farm is gone and so is the family farm turkey as we know it.

Breeding any animal is a lot of work and there is a ton of risk, especially diseases and natural disasters, fires, tornados, etc.. that could completely wipe out a life's work of breeding certain animals, some could never be replaced at any cost. It takes a lot of time, money, commitment and dedication to care for and feed animals. And supply and demand dictate what an animal is worth and if it's worth it to keep breeding it. I doubt we will ever see a day when people will keep breeding in mass animals that they can't sell or get rid of, they simply get overwhelmed and stop breeding that animal and it all balances out in the end. It's just like the whole Llama craze, they used to sell for tens of thousands of dollars each. Then people bred them in the thousands and the price dropped. Now you can get llamas for free and you don't see people breeding them in mass like they used to, supply and demand balances it all out.

Some genes do have some genetic defects, but I believe that even with a disability an animal so beautiful as a Spider Ball Python should be allowed to continue to be in existence and not snuffed into extinction by preventint people from breeding it.

[bcr229]

My husband and I have about 90 snakes, including some adult retics. If we both pass away unexpectedly my sister-in-law, who is the executor of our Will, has instructions on who to call to deal with them.

[loonunit]

I agree that there is a problem, just like there was a problem some years ago with overbreeding of exotic parrots that are intelligent, hard to keep, and suffer greatly when they are neglected. The good news with ball pythons is that they ARE kinda snuggly, DO make good pets, and DON'T produce a ton of young... and they are pretty low maintenance.

But yeah, the situation on Craigslist suggests that even for ball pythons, we have too many animals vs. the number of people able/willing to care for them. And I think we all maybe need to think about slowly switching from breeding to rescuing.

[wolfy-hound]

Most of the "breeders" that are posting on places like Yahoo answers and such will likely never produce viable young, and those few that do won't do it more than once since they'd also have to find buyers which can be a headache.

There will always be some unscrupulous breeders, just like there will always be owners who don't give proper care to the new pet. That doesn't mean all of them are bad, or that all people should stop breeding.

Also, very few ball pythons have inherent health issues. Spiders live long happy lives, or at least as happy as we can determine any reptile is. Yes, once in a while a clutch may end up with kinked babies, but this happens occasionally. It's a risk. Any breeding of any animal carries that risk.

You can't compare humans to animals, but if you were, it's like saying that since some kids may be born with a defect, no one should have any kids.

[cchardwick]

If you know of anyone who passes away and has a library full of snakes give me a call, I'd be glad to take them off of their hands!!!



If it wasn't for all the snake breeders out there doing all the work in the background we would still have a bunch of plain ol looking snakes in the pet stores. It's hard to believe that 20 years ago we didn't even have albinos let alone all the different morphs out there now. It's an amazing time to get into breeding snakes, it's like being an artist with a full color palette at your disposal!

[JodanOrNoDan]

I am by no means a large breeder. I think I have about 40 permanent animals in my collection right now. That said, I understand why you would have concerns but I don't think things are quite as dire as you fear. No matter what, in every hobby and profession there are people that make bad decisions. There is really nothing that can be done about that as long as we live in a free society. Most of the people I know in the hobby are fairly responsible people. They know how many animals they can handle and they know how many they can sell. As to your specific concerns....

1. The people posting on yahoo answers are not likely to produce animals.

2. The obsession with morphs in itself is fine. It generates interest in the hobby and provides enough variety that everyone can find something they consider beautiful. It is amazing to watch the different reactions people have to color variations. People that are scared to death of snakes can see a white blue eyed ball python and find that they think it is cute. I find this funny personally because my best well behaved pet snake is an old ugly normal.

3. As to spiders, this is an old disagreement, I personally had concerns about them until I owned my first one. I now do not hesitate to breed them. They make great pets. I do not breed spider to spider, lessers to lessers, or any animals that are know to have genetic kinking problems. This is my personal choice as a breeder. Experienced breeders that do attempt these crosses know what they have to do when it goes wrong.

4. Ball pythons do not get massive. My six year old daughter can handle my largest animal safely with supervision. As to what happens if I cannot take care of my animals any more, my entire family is involved, if I am not around things continue just fine. This however is one on the main reasons I do not own any larger animals. My kids could not handle a large boa and even I do not feel like dealing with retic on a daily basis. Owners themselves need to have a little responsibility. They need to know their limitations.

I think that it is great that you ask questions instead of just forming opinions. I always say that the truly smart person knows what they do not know.

[wolfy-hound]

Oh I forgot to add... I have a Will... when I die, things are already arranged. I have discussed it with the person who will be the Executor. That's what any responsible adult should do, regardless of what they own, just to be certain that they're not causing issues when they pass away.

[predatorkeeper87]

my spider I just rescued off craigslist is a perfectly healthy snake albeit he does this thing were if he misses a strike he turns his head upside down lol.

With responsible breeding comes the jackwagons who do the good ol' backyard breeding projects, produce WAY too many animals and don't care for them. Its a give and take in the hobby. I love the idea of finding new morphs, but as responsible breeders its everyone's job to determine if a morph has inherent health risks and make it known. BPs on a whole really don't suffer major detrimental health defects due to morph breeding, except some are known for kinking or the wobbles.

[Zincubus]

my spider I just rescued off craigslist is a perfectly healthy snake albeit he does this thing were if he misses a strike he turns his head upside down lol.

With responsible breeding comes the jackwagons who do the good ol' backyard breeding projects, produce WAY too many animals and don't care for them. Its a give and take in the hobby. I love the idea of finding new morphs, but as responsible breeders its everyone's job to determine if a morph has inherent health risks and make it known. BPs on a whole really don't suffer major detrimental health defects due to morph breeding, except some are known for kinking or the wobbles.

I presume that "upside down" motion is part of the wobble you talk about SOMETIMES , but not always , found in Spiders and a few other related morphs ??



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