Am I NUTS or do you feel the same?

[redshepherd]

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

Imo there should be some kind of regulation or permit required to breed any animal, maybe with a $100~$500 registration fee, depending on the species... LOL. It's a super long shot, but it would at least filter out the random ding dongs who impulsively buy 10 ball pythons for kicks, or throw their two random dogs together for a quick buck. Something like that.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped?

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know ......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

[kxr]

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped?

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know ......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far higher than the number of bad breeder.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activist so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for them to succeed in the long term.

Let me rephrase this a bit, I more so meant that you should need a permit in order to become a breeder. So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved. Sure it won't stop everyone in it for the money but it would stop the fly by nighters.

You could bring up the fact that without any regulation there is no way to find out whether breeders took the course... This is a fatal flaw with my suggestion so something would have to be worked out if it were to be implemented irl but all of this discussion is hypothetical anyway.


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[CALM Pythons]

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped?

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know ......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

150% on the money!!

[CALM Pythons]

Let me rephrase this a bit, I more so meant that you should need a permit in order to become a breeder. So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved. Sure it won't stop everyone in it for the money but it would stop the fly by nighters.

You could bring up the fact that without any regulation there is no way to find out whether breeders took the course... This is a fatal flaw with my suggestion so something would have to be worked out if it were to be implemented irl but all of this discussion is hypothetical anyway.


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Which brings us back to where we started... Idiots ruin everything!

[kxr]

Which brings us back to where we started... Idiots ruin everything!

Hmm... Maybe the best solution would be to just exterminate the idiots then

(Kidding of course)


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[CALM Pythons]

I think we need a STICKY that says "read the Stickies before you ask a question" Hahahaha

[Reinz]

Hmm... Maybe the best solution would be to just exterminate the idiots then

(Kidding of course)


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Here's a better idea!

[predatorkeeper87]

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

as I often state in the fish forums, its a FINE line between wanting regulation and uncle sam grabbing the hobbies by the cajones and strangling them. You have to be careful in this scenario...while it would be better for the animals in theory, we as responsible keepers get crushed. The guv'ment doesn't make the distinction between good, so-so, and bad they just shut everything down.

I hate seeing people with red tailed catfish in a 55 gallon tank but if I ask for a ban it will most likely entail ALL south American species, not just rtc's. Same goes for snakes unfortunately.

The best practice is teaching every single person you can about proper husbandry and responsible breeding.

- - - Updated - - -

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped?

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know ......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

This. Sorry I didn't see this response before I posted my own.

[PitOnTheProwl]

So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved.

And who would teach and set the standards? Deb hit it out of the park here.

Research is so easy with google OR even the search bar here but people are too lazy.....