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  1. #1
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    Bought her last month, need help identifying potential morph?

    She was basically living in a 'crack house'. I paid $100 for her, and her enclosure, aswell the light, and ceramic light, UTH. The idiot had a half assed hideout, and a half inch, if that, of reptile lizard red sand as substrate. Furiously, I got her to a loving, caring, home. She has been with me for 27 days today. Day 1 she weighed 1220 grams and was said to be 4 to 4.5 years + old. Which, in turn, is bullcrap. As far as a professional whom viewed my snakes, they were both 3x less in age then advertised. My male was said to be 3 years and 2.3-2.5 ft length 550-600 grams or so, in turn he was 1 year and a cpl months give or take said the pro. The female ate 7 small rats and will constantly eat, like no tomorrow, if i were to offer her more. In 27 days.... 4 medium rats and 3 small ones. She gained HUGE weight.. id guestimate 500+ grams easy so far... she was probably starved at the dope house.

    Pics of bella:

    http://m.imgur.com/a/qRc9n

    I am making two threads in one, for the clutter im apologizing in advance because of my adhd and my need to get it all out lol.

    my male, bought nov. 15th 2016 ate once a week every friday but would NEVER take it no matter what i tried directly from my feeding utensils.. i always left it in the cage overnight and itd be gone in the am. Long story short, he has been 3 weeks without eating now. I have tried everything. My son was born premature unexpected @ 32 weeks 2 days on dec 23rd.. i went home xmas day for a moment to check on my snakes, which were in seperate tanks, to see she escaped and was curled up behind my bed. Thank god she didnt wonder around..

    so, i had no choice but to put the female, and male, together in his escape free cage until i had time to fix the mesh screen setup this fool preior owner had been using.. they are ALWAYS together. They did not mate, its as if they have to be together or they are heartbroken (hilarious right? But thats how im putting it because it looks that way for me, a novice and very new owner -- P.S. I understand the risks involved with this, and am going to seperate them within a day. They have been caged together since xmas til now. I had no time to fix her cage i have another 1.5 yr old son to and its back and forth a hour drive vis taxi constantly finding babysitters stressful stuff.. so please dont rant me for the same caging risks and flame)




    Question #1:

    Is this female, Bella, a normal? Or a morph? Her belly is practically all white. Her color is MUCH lightter then his, and hes a proven normal. The owner never told me anything besides that he had a female ball python for $100.


    i will post pics in a moment, disregard the multiples. Also disregard the pic of bella being a pig and eating jakes small rat, lol, couldnt refreeze it so she had her fourth in 4 days now.




    Question #2:

    Is there something potentially wrong with my male, jake? The smaller normal? How can i make him eat? He lost weight for sure since 2 months of ownership. Easily noticeable. Yes i tried feeding him in 15 locations without Bella nearby. nothing works.

    #3:

    Can Jake die if he goes much longer on his hunger strike? I am so attached to him, i dont want anything to happen to him.
    Last edited by Caper2016; 01-17-2017 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User keebs's Avatar
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    Looks like a normal to me.

    If you're having issues with your snakes escaping and if you don't have the time to do repairs or get a proper enclosure for the one that's getting out, I'd say that maybe it's time to reconsider whether or not you have the time for your snakes at all... just saying.

    As for the male not eating, it sounds like he's probably extremely stressed out. You don't mention anywhere what your temps are or what sort of setup you have your snakes in so I'd say your husbandry is off and that's what's causing him to not eat. Ball pythons have been known to go on hunger strikes so him not eating is neither unusual or cause for concern to me. If you can't see his spine sticking out, he's probably fine.

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  4. #3
    Sometimes It Hurts... PitOnTheProwl's Avatar
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    Normal

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  6. #4
    Registered User Dezoruba's Avatar
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    Re: Bought her last month, need help identifying potential morph?

    Are you keeping the snakes together in the same tank? Don't do that.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

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  8. #5
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    If the male has been refusing food for 3 weeks, and you (I assume) have him
    on a weekly feeding schedule, and they've been housed together since Christmas, that puts the start of his hunger strike right about the same time as the change in his environment.

    You really should separate them... keeping snakes together is never a good idea, and honestly it's even more risky when one of them is 2-3 times the size of the other. Snakes are solitary animals and can be extremely sensitive to cohabitation, which causes competition stress. Competition for everything-- temps, hides, basking spots, perches, food and water, space in general... everything. When you see two snakes "cuddling" in the same hide, or laying on top of each other under the basking light, that's them both competing for the same spot or being forced to share for thermoregulatory purposes. For animals that only ever really come together to mate or hibernate, that constant contact and interaction will cause a great deal of stress. Factor in the size difference and I think it's safe to conclude that your male is stressed out and scared crapless from cohabbing with a much larger female. Even if you separate them for feedings, the stress and fear is still there. You need to separate them permanently and let the male get used to feeling secure and confident in his environment again. He won't eat again until he feels safe.

    Also-- it sounds like you may be over feeding the female. 7 meals in 27 days is a lot, especially after moving her. Ball pythons can be gluttons so be careful, a lot of them will take food whenever and as often as you offer it, even if they don't need it. Feeding more than once a week is too much for a snake her size.

    Also fyi learning about and practicing quarantine before you pick up any more new reptiles may save you some trouble in the future good luck

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  10. #6
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    If the male has been refusing food for 3 weeks, and you (I assume) have him
    on a weekly feeding schedule, and they've been housed together since Christmas, that puts the start of his hunger strike right about the same time as the change in his environment.

    You really should separate them... keeping snakes together is never a good idea, and honestly it's even more risky when one of them is 2-3 times the size of the other. Snakes are solitary animals and can be extremely sensitive to cohabitation, which causes competition stress. Competition for everything-- temps, hides, basking spots, perches, food and water, space in general... everything. When you see two snakes "cuddling" in the same hide, or laying on top of each other under the basking light, that's them both competing for the same spot or being forced to share for thermoregulatory purposes. For animals that only ever really come together to mate or hibernate, that constant contact and interaction will cause a great deal of stress. Factor in the size difference and I think it's safe to conclude that your male is stressed out and scared crapless from cohabbing with a much larger female. Even if you separate them for feedings, the stress and fear is still there. You need to separate them permanently and let the male get used to feeling secure and confident in his environment again. He won't eat again until he feels safe.

    Also-- it sounds like you may be over feeding the female. 7 meals in 27 days is a lot, especially after moving her. Ball pythons can be gluttons so be careful, a lot of them will take food whenever and as often as you offer it, even if they don't need it. Feeding more than once a week is too much for a snake her size.

    Also fyi learning about and practicing quarantine before you pick up any more new reptiles may save you some trouble in the future good luck

    - - - Updated - - -

    If the male has been refusing food for 3 weeks, and you (I assume) have him
    on a weekly feeding schedule, and they've been housed together since Christmas, that puts the start of his hunger strike right about the same time as the change in his environment.

    You really should separate them... keeping snakes together is never a good idea, and honestly it's even more risky when one of them is 2-3 times the size of the other. Snakes are solitary animals and can be extremely sensitive to cohabitation, which causes competition stress. Competition for everything-- temps, hides, basking spots, perches, food and water, space in general... everything. When you see two snakes "cuddling" in the same hide, or laying on top of each other under the basking light, that's them both competing for the same spot or being forced to share for thermoregulatory purposes. For animals that only ever really come together to mate or hibernate, that constant contact and interaction will cause a great deal of stress. Factor in the size difference and I think it's safe to conclude that your male is stressed out and scared crapless from cohabbing with a much larger female. Even if you separate them for feedings, the stress and fear is still there. You need to separate them permanently and let the male get used to feeling secure and confident in his environment again. He won't eat again until he feels safe.

    Also-- it sounds like you may be over feeding the female. 7 meals in 27 days is a lot, especially after moving her. Ball pythons can be gluttons so be careful, a lot of them will take food whenever and as often as you offer it, even if they don't need it. Feeding more than once a week is too much for a snake her size.

    Also fyi learning about and practicing quarantine before you pick up any more new reptiles may save you some trouble in the future good luck

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  12. #7
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    She's a normal.

    You might want to post details about your setup, what you're using to measure temps, heat, what are your temps, etc. That would make things a lot easier to know what to fix.

    You'll want to separate them as soon as possible. Ball pythons (and most snakes) do best in tubs, because tubs retain heat and humidity much better than glass.

    Offering one mouse for both of them at the same time, in the same enclosure, is asking for stress and trouble...

    Take a look at this tub setup guide for what to do and what to buy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...e-Basics-*DUW*
    Last edited by redshepherd; 01-18-2017 at 05:59 PM.

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  14. #8
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    Thanks guys. I am aware of the risks I put my snakes at, and I am absolutely putting all of my time in the morning while i have a few free hours for once, to rebuild the top to the other cage. I just got a new fully grown 4 year old male snake free due to the owner moving away and wanted a caring, loving, new home and owner and contacted me today. Hes beautiful. So docile its insane. I cant believe how much he weighs... if i were to guess id say more then double bellas weight without a question.. shes not even half his widest girth compared.

    Anyways.. in the pic you seen the cage that my small Jake lives in. I was after cleaning it, steralizing it, and changing from aspen to reptile brick-soil like substrate which you add water to and it expands and dry it out. I have a UTH under the hideout. I also have, but dont always use, $25 light bulbs (3 new ones) that petvalu sold me each screwed within a ceramic lamp. I don't use it much anymore, as i have a temp gun, that my father has lent me from work (he works for the city as a eletrician and its an accurate and super pricey temp gun). I spray the cage, mist, i mean, 2-3 squirts every few days, and NEVER let humidity go lower/higher then 50-65%.

    I actually tried, when I first got Jake, the $25 CORRECT 75w reptile bulb that is clear tipped, not foggy, from pet valu, to place the lamp directly on the mesh screen top on the right side of the cage. After noticing him never wanting to be on that side anymore, i tried testing the temp and the rock was at 125 F. No joke. In a hour. I did not have him in or mear the rock thankfully when i did the tests. So, i took an old guitar stand, and rigged a homemade way to reduce the risk of overheating. The stand allows me to adjust height and such, and is cinveinent. I will never put a bulb on top of the mesh screen ever again. Regardless of anyones input, i am super attached to my snakes, and as a newbie learning, i have made mistakes in which I own up to. But, i hope y'all don't think im a careless person, as this is not the case. I am doing my best. If Bella had not of escaped and if my son was not born so many weeks early I woulda fixed this cage up long ago.


    There will be no more combining snakes in cages for me, as I am really agreeing with you all that it makes perfect sense that jake is stressed due to Bellas presence within the cage. Timing makes sense, and I really had no other choice at the time, so apologies to those who look down upon me for my mistake(s).




    The new male, named Echo, looks as if he could be a morph of some type.. but again, I don't know how to see signs of morphs as some morphs look identical to me to some normals... Can someome tell me what people mean when they say 'they see visual flames and alisn heads' id reallllllllly appreciate the definition of the two descripive terms that are spoken of frequently on these forums.




    I will post pics of Echo in a half hour. OH i almost forgot the guy who gave me Echo today told me he eats six mice a week.... does that sound insane to you guys because it does to me. Either hes full of BS for whatever reason he would make a lie as such, or he is a idiot. He told me alive, at that.
    Last edited by Caper2016; 01-18-2017 at 08:56 PM.

  15. #9
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    I plan to breed echo and bella, I have $1000 to buy supplies with. As i think im going to need a breeding setup sooner then expected. I took him to the vet yesterday and checked him out, to make sure he was healthy and he is fine. He looked at Bella free of charge too! Shes fully healthy and ready to mate at 1777 grams. So, me being myself and thinking i want to introduce them to one another, as theyre both healthy and all, put them together for a hour today. I mean, what could happen in a hour? This happened. They look like theyre doing the do. I dont know 100% yet if its the case, and I came on here for your guys help to determine if its factual and if not, how to remove him from her cage. Jake is making me nervous, i love that little guy, hes being seen tomorrow at 4pm by the vet as i didnt have him with me, i pray he is okay and i pray to god he doesnt have anything wrong with him.. he just isnt looking himself.. unless its the weight loss.. im not taking chances.. i do have to pay $100 for the visit tomorrow but its worth every cent to me.


    Dont bash me for the planned breeding from a noobs POV please. I know a lot and I am learning even more daily on here. I know whats needed and i know what to do and what not to do with a gravid female ball python. Like mentioned, if this is happening for real, i am going to be shocked but happy as heck. As i can get a incubator from a friend who has 3 for $100 CAD.


    Posting pictures.. i dont know if i can get a better pic of him, echo, because i am not risking interuppting them, but, if its not the real deal, i need advice on safely removing him.


    Uploading pics of them two now, id like to ID echo if hes not a normal if you guys can do that. Hes noticeabley brighter, and has a long stripe on his tail thats almost what people say pastels look like color wise.. i really think hes not normal.. but if he is thats no issue here..


    http://imgur.com/epIRdNB
    http://imgur.com/pxwpDOJ
    http://imgur.com/NsQjB49
    http://imgur.com/5JK8S5t
    http://imgur.com/VHRqVm2
    http://imgur.com/bolWRqw
    http://imgur.com/fSvkeQ1
    http://imgur.com/opvc1gL
    http://imgur.com/gwRUoCP
    http://imgur.com/6VbwQNg
    http://imgur.com/vuLm1Gd
    http://imgur.com/jsLigr7
    http://imgur.com/YfdoJHT
    http://imgur.com/o8EOUxa
    http://imgur.com/mpULiIp
    http://imgur.com/qcrGN0V
    http://imgur.com/rJ4IlGf
    http://imgur.com/MJy1AjC
    Last edited by Caper2016; 01-19-2017 at 05:28 PM.

  16. #10
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    I don't understand why you would breed these snakes, common no value normals which have been rehomed or out of bad situations-you realize you would be adding to this exact problem right? Plus you didn't quarantine any of them (should be several months), don't have proper or even separate housing, are massively overfeeding, don't know anything about breeding/genetics/health issues. Yes your male is a normal and no you can't judge age by looking at them or size so whoever fed you that is full of crap. Your female is also a normal. Please get some actual snake cages and set them up correctly and separately, do some reading on proper care before you produce more animals that will be around for decades. Do you have a thermostat on your undertank heaters? A temp gun to accurately check around the cages?
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