Pastel

[frankykeno]

With the decision made to go with an 05 male pastel some questions have arose that our research isn't answering clearly enough for me (dang compulsion to know it all drives me nuts somedays LOL).

Now on Ralph Davis site it mentions classic Pastels...are these also called "Jungles"? As well he mentions Lemon Pastel as a seperate morph. So I'm to understand they are seperate and not just different "shades" of the same morph? In other words a classic bred to a lemon Pastel would produce what?

As well I did find a site with a pic of a clutch with both Super Pastels and Pastels but unfortunately did not save it and cannot remember where it was. Does anyone have a link showing both morphs in the same clutch so we can clearly see the difference in them at hatching?

Lastly, have we understood the genetics for co-dom correctly in the following:

Pastel x Normal = normal and pastel offspring

Pastel x Pastel = normal, pastel and super pastel offspring

Super x Super = all super offspring

Of course we know in any breeding nothing is absolute but do we have the basics of the punnet square sorted out reasonably well?

My this is an exciting time!


~~Joanna & Mike~~

[daniel1983]

here you go....this is a good visual of pastel breeding possiblilties...
http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/co_dominant.html

[kavmon]

super x normal = all pastels i like that!!!


i can't think of a site i'm sure we'll find one soon though.


vaughn

[frankykeno]

Ohhh ty I missed that pairing when I was working out the punnet square.


Super x Normal = all pastel offspring

Now that is nice! Thanks!

~~Joanna~~

[Adam_Wysocki]

Now on Ralph Davis site it mentions classic Pastels...are these also called "Jungles"?

Technically, pastels started out as "Pastel Jungles" when NERD proved them out many years ago due to their resemblance to the "classic jungles" that show up in captive breedings here and there. "Pastel" is just a shortened version that has become the standard over the years. Pastel Jungle and Pastel are one in the same.

As well he mentions Lemon Pastel as a separate morph. So I'm to understand they are separate and not just different "shades" of the same morph? In other words a classic bred to a lemon Pastel would produce what?

Lemon pastels or "Lemon Pastel Jungles" to be official are just a "line" of pastels. They were proven by NERD and have characteristics that sometimes distinguish them from other pastel "lines". Lemon pastels that I have produced have a brighter "neon" yellow coloration with very little orange (orange turns brown as pastels get older) and hold their coloration very well into adulthood. Lemon pastels also have a deeper, darker black coloration that doesn't typically have the fading seen in other pastels lines which gives them a very sharp black on yellow contrast.

Of course we know in any breeding nothing is absolute but do we have the basics of the punnet square sorted out reasonably well?

Just a side note about punnets square and odds .... Last year I bred my lemon pastel male to one of my largest normal females .... she laid 14 eggs ... every single one of them was normal. I think a lot of people believe that the 50/50 thing is just about a given when it comes to pastel clutches, but in my experience it certainly isn't. Breeding these animals will humble you, that I know for certain.

I just thought that was important to point out for anyone thinking about investing in these animals. Research, research, research, and like any other investment, only spend what you can afford to lose.

Joanna, I got your email and will get back to you in the morning when I'm a little more coherent ... I don't want to make any mistakes in my half sleepedness!

-adam

[frankykeno]

Thanks Adam for that excellent response, can always depend on you to make it very clear (even half-asleep LOL).

Yep we know that the odds are never a mathmatical certainty (heck if they were wouldn't that just take all the fun outta it!). In the end we figure if we get healthy hatchlings one day we'll be just thrilled whatever color they are.

Thanks for explaining the lemon thing so clearly. Now if I could only find a link with both supers and pastels I'd have my research almost done. Some supers really don't look all that "super" to me when I look at pics so it's still a bit confusing on how they differ at hatching from their pastel sibs.


~~Joanna~~

[Adam_Wysocki]

Some supers really don't look all that "super" to me when I look at pics so it's still a bit confusing on how they differ at hatching from their pastel sibs.

Then you've probably never really seen a pic of supers next to pastels as hatchlings. When they hatch, the black in super pastels almost looks grey/white, especially on the top of the head, and the yellow is almost blinding. When the super pastel was first produced, the original name on the street for it was the "opal" ball python based on it's amazing appearance.

But just like any ball python morph, there is a tremendous amount of variation among super pastels ... you can have ugly ones right next to screamers.

-adam

[daniel1983]

You have never seen a super pastel until you see one in person. I got to see this guy a few months ago...breathtaking
http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/imag...pastel/09l.jpg

[frankykeno]

Well I'll just wipe up the drool Daniel....my gawd that's one gorgeous snake!

Yep that's the problem Adam, I did find one pic somewhere on the web that showed a clutch with supers and pastels together and you could clearly see the difference. Of course, I forgot to save the link and now can't find it to show Mike.

What I meant was some of the sub-adult Supers we've viewed online just don't look all that different from pastels we've viewed so that's where our confusion grew from. As you've mentioned tho, there's a spectrum of shades and also differences in lines and what one breeder produces to the what another breeder produces.

Lovely snakes though and certainly we feel well worth what we'll invest for future small scale breeding projects.


~~Joanna~~

[daniel1983]

Of course, I forgot to save the link and now can't find it to show Mike.

ha ha....if you can't tell...super pastels are one of my favorites....I know all the good sites

Here is a link to pics of good super pastel/pastel comparison(the last two):

http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/psuperpastel.html

Some other good super pastel sites:

http://grazianireptiles.com/Super%20Pastel.htm

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ball_superpastel.html

http://www.ballpython.ca/collection/...er_pastel.html