Setting up a northern ringneck/brownsnake habitat?

[Paragonimus westerma]

Hey everyone.


I'm trying to make a plan to set up a naturalistic vivarium for some type of small colubrid native to the northern states. Right now my two prime picks are either the northern subspecies of ringneck snake or brownsnake. Actually I'd really prefer a foxsnake, but damned if I can find those anywhere. This is for a classroom setup; I was also considering northern varieties of ratsnake or racer; but I feel like the racer would be too stressed out for that environment and space premiums might be an issue for a black ratsnake.


Anyway, I specify that this is for a classroom setup just to clarify that the more minimalist, easy maintenance setups that I and probably most other people have for their pet snakes is probably not going to cut it for display purposes.


So far I've identified two good picks for cage decor;


A "Bog" setup
http://www.carolina.com/mosses-liverworts-and-lichen/large-bog-terrarium-plant-set/163620.pr?question=


Or a "Woodland" setup
http://www.carolina.com/mosses-liverworts-and-lichen/large-woodland-terrarium-plant-set/163860.pr?question=


The bog setup has the benefit of being suitable for carnivorous plants; which are themselves extremely interesting, but also come with the baggage of having a dormancy requirement which may be stressful for the snake, and an eternally wet, acidic, low-pH environment.




So for the questions;
1. Which setup would you prefer if you had to choose?
2. Can these species deal with the extremely wet, acidic conditions of a bog?
3. Does anyone have recommendations for a good bulb that produces both suitable light for plant growth and an appropriate amount of heat? I'd like to keep the wiring to a minimum.
4. Does anybody know of a good source for ringneck, dekay's brown, or fox snakes? Catching my own enters a legal grey area that, as a teacher, I'd like to avoid.


I should specify that I'm specifically eyeing for the northern varieties of these species; I myself live in the NE USA and I'd like to have the northern forms to add authenticity to the display.



Cheers!

[Prognathodon]

Dealing with a particular habitat for a limited period of time is not the same as being confined to one. Set up the type of habitat the species prefers, or choose a species that is adapted to life in the particular habitat.


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[distaff]

Snake comes first.
Find the husbandry requirements of the animal, and match the viv to the requirements.

Usually, this means that you will have to make many concessions on the authenticity of habitat since a glass box providing life support to a snake just has a lot of limitations already.

If you want a bog terrarium, set one up without the snake. I wouldn't put any snake in with carnivorous plants. The plants are delicate. Furthermore, you can find a video (Brad's greenhouse - mostly an orchid guy) where a pitcher plant ate a snake. Upsetting to me; I didn't watch that one. If the snake bulldozes the plants it could get injuries from spiney sticky sundews, or the digestive enzymes in the pitchers. Probably also, too much humidity here.

Have you thought about how to provide the necessary heat to this viv? That is doable, but tricky in a bio-active type shelter. Overhead heat near the plants will dry them out. UTH heat will not penetrate a thick substrate, nor the necessary drainage layer at the bottom.

In my opinion, there is a LOT to any type of living set-up, and getting it right in a class room environment is probably wishful thinking. If you go ahead with it, don't forget the lock.

[distaff]

I have a low opinion of Carlolinal BS, but that is just me. I couldn't get your links to work either.

I work with New England Herpetoculture for plants and viv supplies, inc lights (I like Jungle Dawn with Exo-Terra hoods). Josh's Frogs is a good source too. Both very informative, although they are not specifically geared to snakes. Universal Rocks supplies beautiful backgrounds taken from real rock faces.

You might benefit from two books:

Philippe de Vosjoli The Art of Raising Snakes
Philip Purser Natural Terrariums

Both are focused on naturalistic display vivs. Both are a bit dated, but the techniques/tools/materials for this hobby get better all the time. You also need a GOOD care book on the animal you choose. If that animal is primarily nocturnal, you may never see it during classroom hours. My Desert King never shows up during daylight, and he burrows. I'd have to uproot all the plants if I wanted to dig him out during the day. I leave him be.

Do you have a budget? An 36" Exo-Terra can be $200-300. A fish tank is doable, but a pain with the hood and lights on top. No way to lock it either (at some point, some unauthorized person will want to get in there). All told, I several hundred dollars on the corn snake's set-up. It is not a cheap hobby.

[distaff]

More on budget, since Admin has a time limit:

My large Exo-Terra needed two heat sources, RHP and UTH, requiring a T-stat with two ports - approx $200. The heating itself was another $100. Substrate came to about $100 for both drainage, and the top cover. If you are not VERY well versed in this part, you do not want to skimp, and just dig dirt out of the back yard - that won't work. You need a mix with materials that will work in a glass box, supporting the plants, and not toxic (ferts., etc.) to the animal. You must have a drainage layer. Ignore all vids that skip this step. Gravel will do, but is really MUCH too heavy. Leica, or Hydro balls are a better choice, if you ever want to move the viv w/o having to empty it of heavy gravel - my 36"X18"X24" Exo-Terra viv already weighs 70lbs empty. Don't forget to place a sheet of fiberglass screen between the drainage and top layer - otherwise, the top layer may get too soggy. Lighting will cost about $100, and that is if you only light half the tank. (I prefer this softer look, and I think it is easier on the animal - the LED's are harsh to look at directly. Snakes don't have eyelids.)

If you get plants at a regular store, they might carry toxic spray and bugs. I prefer to get all my plants from New England Herpetoculture, or a similar suppllier. By the way, mosses are very hard to maintain w/o a misting system, and that won't work for most snakes. Even ferns are tough to keep looking good. Use distilled water to mist once a day, and do not spray the leaves directly. Plants were the least expensive part of it, maybe $40, and I spent at least a hundred on magnetic ledges and magnetic pot holders for that particular viv. You will want two thermometers and a hygrometer, digital, not the cheap dials, and you should have a lazer temp gun too. Don't expect the hygro readings to be accurate. I go by the health of the plants.

[distaff]

This is not something you just pull together in an hour or two on a Saturday. Setting one up is a BIG project, and it will need some focused tweeking after. If you don't, your plants may die, and the snake suffers. Some plants may not take anyway, or fail later, so don't expect a glorious show piece either from the start, nor all the time. I had several vivs with different tanks before I settled on the main two I have now.

There is a third in the works, for a rosy boa, but haven't had time to focus on it. Just paper towel substrate, and some sticks for climbing. By the way, my first Exo was perfectly made. The one I bought later for the rosy has problems, and the top screen that was sent to replace the one that came cracked from shipping was so poorly made, I just kept the cracked one. Overall, poor fit and finish on this later Exo. ...the LAST on I'll be ordering. Next box will have to be custom made. Just a heads-up on quality.

[Paragonimus westerma]

Thank you everybody for your feedback!

I was asking about the habitat suitability because all of the literature I could find vaguely suggests that both ringnecks and brownsnakes are "adapted to a wide range of habitats", or something to that effect, and that they have been found in sphagnum bogs before. I couldn't find anything about whether they are permanent residents or not.

All the same, after feedback and more research I've distilled my options down to just two things:

1. Get either a ringneck, dekay's brown, or a foxsnake in a simplistic "grassland" setup, which is basically just soil [no additives] strewn with raw grass seed [no fertilizer crap]. Heat will be provided from both a dedicated plant light and a ceramic heater. I've used this setup successfully for small skinks and terrestrial crabs [Gecarcinus quadratus]. It prioritizes the animal over the plants, and if the grass dies I just plant more grass seed. A basking spot with no grass is placed at the "hot end" with the ceramic heater, so the issue of the heat source drying out the plants is mostly negated.

2. Set up a "disguised terrarium" for my sumatran short tail python and place a couple of tropical pitcher plants in with it, as devised by California Carnivores... or at least I think that's where it was devised. Basically plants remain in separate pots, only the pots are disguised or buried in substrate. This makes plant maintenance much easier, and they can be kept moist without turning the entire terrarium into a swamp.

This option has a few perks; I already own the python and I don't need to go searching for a species that is relatively obscure in the pet trade. It shares its native habitat in Sumatra with many types of tropical pitcher plant that are readily obtainable in the plant trade, and the snake itself is rather inactive and unlike to overly disturb or damage any plant that is well positioned.

My other options for snakes that I own are more limited. My sand boa is anerythristic, so making a "naturalistic" setup for an unnatural color morph is pointless.

I have rubber boas, but they spend practically all of their time buried as far into the substrate as they can possibly go; having plants in the way would be a massive hassle since I use separate feeding containers for them. Rubber boas make wonderful handling and demonstration animals for students, but they only work for that purpose if they're easy to access without a lot of plants or decor in the way. Their tendency to hide also makes them terrible hands-off, display-only animals.

I have a young Argentine boa, but I'm not particularly familiar with what kind of suitable South American plants it can share its home with. He is also much more active and likely to damage delicate plants, and is growing quickly to the point where space restrictions in a classroom would probably become an insurmountable problem.

[distaff]

Well, I am envious of that snake collection.

You might like the effect if you use the walls for many of the plants, esp. for a snake like the short tail. My understanding is that they don't climb, so lots of interesting stuff could be grown on the sides to hang down. The basis of these builds uses Great Stuff foam to build out planting drainage incorporating niches on the sides, and a cover of earthy textures - bark, dry mosses, etc for a surface cover. I like the rocky cliff face look - but never made one. New England Herpetoculture probably has the best instructions, I've also found some good build videos out there by hobbyists. Abundant Potos falling down around pitchers perched on the sides could be very effective. Potos is very easy to grow, and AFAIK, authentic to jungles. I dont know if it is typically found with pitchers.

For a larger animal like the short tail, I expect you will need to design it so you have access to really get in there and spot clean. The waste will be too much for a small space to compost, even with pill bugs. If he soils burrows you don't have access to, the viv could get smelly. I can't advise you there, all my snakes are fairly small.

As for naturalistic hides, modeled foam works. You can hot glue substrate directly to the top to blend it in. I like a sheet that is flat on the bottom, and the snake makes a burrow for itself in the substrate underneath. (The flat underside is a handy place to silicone the UTH - this is off-label hack, DYODD, but works. Don't forget the t-stat probe. you carve a space for all of this and then silicone it flat.), sheets of bark work for my rosy. Universal Rocks has some nice *rocks* that can be made hollow. The cornsnake has one plain black plastic "cool side" hide buried under substrate. That hide does NOT work, because access for cleaning is not easy. I need to change it.

Your terrarium won't turn into a swamp if it has proper bottom level drainage. (Space things on the surface so your hides stay cosy and DRY, and are not wicking any moisture from the walls, and are preferably slightly elevated from the rest of the landscape.) You need to be concerned with humidity, however. What level do the pitchers require? I expect the short tail is OK with very humidity - not sure.

[distaff]

You first post mentioned sources. Kingsnake.com has vendors of many obscure species, both captive, and wild caught. If you want to do wild caught yourself, look up your state laws. Some wild snakes are protected, most aren't - at least where I live. I do think CB is more likely to make a better display animal in a school setting.