Rare morps and their worth

[Dave Green]

Not worth much when the market is dying

I'm sold out as well except for two snakes I recently added to my site. Plus, I have waiting lists for some of my 2016 projects. This market has changed but you need to adapt and be realistic. If I told you what I've been offered for the King of Dinkers you'd be very surprised.

[distaff]

Not worth much when the market is dying

Marketing and sales is a skill set. Assuming that your animals are good quality, then you are simply doing something else wrong, but it is fixable.

Go to the business section your library/local book shop, and start reading. Amazon probably has a good selection too, and you can pick up a lot of info just from people's reviews. Doesn't matter if the item being sold is real estate, gemstones, or hamsters...most of the information will be transferable. There are two guys who talk about marketing specific to BP's, but I can't remember their names. One used to post his videos here on occasion (MA Balls??), and another has the first name of Colin, and he has a very good web site. Both are very informative. Maybe someone else who knows can add in the names and links.

Yes, in the US (where I assume you are), the economy sucks. Nevertheless, not everyone is living on the edge of destitution, and we have a LONG way to go before it gets that bad. People are still spending money for fun things, and you are fortunate to be in a field where you can draw customers from the entire country (the world, if you want to deal with the paperwork).

[fLako0aGuiiLaR]

What about all the auctions that are happening on FB?
arent they hurting the market?

[bcr229]

What about all the auctions that are happening on FB?
arent they hurting the market?

No, because not every potential buyer can or will participate, so by limiting the customer base the seller is limiting the price. "The market" is bigger than those auctions for a variety of reasons:
- Not everyone uses Facebook,
- The stipulations on the auction may exclude buyers, e.g. payment only by PayPal (and I won't use PayPal),
- If the auction ends at a time when I'm not online then I can't participate.

To get the best price for an online auction there needs to be an application like eBay or GunBroker behind it to draw in the greatest number of bidders, something where buyers can set a maximum bid so they don't have to be online to win the auction, where multiple payment methods are accepted, etc.

[OhhWatALoser]

What about all the auctions that are happening on FB?
arent they hurting the market?

A fraction of a percentage doesn't even phase the market.

I stopped selling online and have 2 animals left for sale. I also know there are many combos I could produce that won't even make it to a show before they are sold. I may have to start selling online again at some point but right now my local scene is treating me good. This isn't a dying market, everyone was spoiled 10 years ago.

[Slim]

This isn't a dying market, everyone was spoiled 10 years ago.

THIS

I think the market is more adjusted now than at any other time I've been in the hobby.

[Brandon Osborne]

I have never had to drop price on any Urban Camos. I have a list of people wanting them and I only have 5 babies left from last year's clutches. The market has been dying for years and those who stuck around and did the right breeding strategy are doing well. I don't pair animals just to produce a clutch. I have set pairings I plan out and if they don't go I try again next year. Most people complaining are the ones that want it now. You have to breed for the future and think about market direction. Breeding for Bumble Bees isn't going to change the game.

[Ogre]

I'm not sure if anyone one has hit on this yet but those outlandish prices are typically paid by other breeders to try and get projects going.
Scaleless heads are pretty pricey right now and I can only assume that scaleless bps are even more so. But once all the breeders have them and are pumping out scaleless then the price will start to drop, though I think that the scaleless might hold value due to the scaleless head being mostly used as breeding stock.

Sent from my 5056W using Tapatalk

[the_rotten1]

Agreed. Since scaleless snakes are the super form I think the scaleless gene will hold value better than most codoms. It's similar to producing BELs, which have always been popular.

To answer the OP's question: I very much doubt that any morph will be bred out of existence due to pricing. It always comes down in the end. The scaleless project is a prime example. Those snakes are prohibitively expensive for me, but I've seen a whole lot more of them this year than I did last year, and at lower prices.

For the most part, it's breeders that will be buying high end investment animals in order to strengthen their own collections. I don't have a lot of experience, but I agree with those who do when they say you have to adapt to the market. What that means is that breeders have to broaden their own collections. Try out new genes, produce new combos, and stay on top of changes in the market and in morphology. If you breed the same snakes year after year you're not going to get anywhere. So it becomes a competition. Not just against other breeders, but against yourself.

I haven't even had my first clutch yet, but I'm in the process of breeding and I'm already planning what I'll pair next year and the year after that. I have long-term goals that include producing more and different combos, mainly visual recessive/codom combos, and some double recessives too. I'm sure I'll also add more genes to my collection as I go.

I'm excited about ball pythons and I want to stay on top of what's new and interesting, even the projects I can't possibly afford. Today's out of reach snake will be affordable eventually. It's only a matter of time.

[cchardwick]

Pricing comes down to supply and demand, nothing else.

I actually bought a pastel spider pied for half price, the guy bought it and within a month decided he wanted to get out of snakes. He posted it on Morphmarket and said local sales only, good thing it wasn't far from my house. The only problem was that now that he sold it for half price other people immediately followed suit and I saw other pastel spider pieds sell for the same price. In fact soon after that I saw a whole bunch of breeder males and females posted, I imagine that breeders realized the price was tanking and decided to get out of that morph and into something else. That one sale turned the market upside down overnight for that particular morph.

I think a lot of people look for the cheapest price and then price a little lower to move their snakes faster. The only problem is that it hurts everyone in the market and it's a downward spiral. Only the very experienced breeders will set the prices at the high end and hold out for those buyers that will pay. If you lowball everyone else you are hurting yourself and everyone else. If you want to lowball everyone I'd suggest making some private deals with local pet stores or wholesale them.

Also, it's not only about historical prices listed on Morphmarket or other sites, it's about what is available at any given moment. I looked for a Pinstripe Pied female for almost a year before someone posted one and I bought it. I was so desperate for that morph I would have paid double what they were going for just to get that project moving along. I got one at a reasonable price but now I'm a year behind on that project, if I would have paid more a year earlier I would have made a return much faster since it takes about 3 years to breed females.

Some morphs drop in price very fast, others hardly at all. Look at the 'Tri-stripe' gene. Not many people getting into that and not many for sale, but the prices remain high. I've also seen people with a whole table of unique morphs at the show and complaining that no one is buying. I think its because it's not that unique of a morph, you have to show me what it can do and impress me before I'll invest in that project.

I think some morphs are way over rated, like the clowns. I'd much rather get into the pied project, just seems to be much more of an impressive morph even though they are a bit cheaper. And you can't go wrong with the coral glow / banana. Nothing else even comes close to looking like that.

So basically it comes down to = how many people want to get into that morph (what is the demand?) and how many of those morphs are out there (what is the supply?). If you have a snake that I want and you have the only one and I'm sitting on a pile of cash I'll pay it. And especially if I'm a breeder and can start generating some return on that investment in the coming years.