Total Albino Confusion

[frankykeno]

Okay my eyes are crossed, my dishes aren't done and I'm seriously considering giving up on BP morph research and just buying myself a nice fat obnoxious toy poodle and retiring to my porch swing to sip vodka!!!

Someone pls explain in plain english this albino thing to me. I've seen pics of a carmel albino, an albino, a carmel, a carmel glow....and then this issue of T-, T+ crops up. What confuses me is a carmel albino also called a carmel or are they different morphs altogether? If a carmel albino is some sort of albino can it be mated to a "regular" albino. What the heck is T- T+ (best I could figure out in my currently confuddled state is it's some sort of genetic that does or doesn't produce a dark coloring).

All this started when I found a picture of this gorgeous male snake that is tones of carmel...from rich to darker with no white or black. They labelled it a "carmel" and I got hooked on the beauty of it.

Anyone know where I can buy aforementioned poodle (the vodka I can get myself) LOL

[Adam_Wysocki]

Okay my eyes are crossed, my dishes aren't done and I'm seriously considering giving up on BP morph research and just buying myself a nice fat obnoxious toy poodle and retiring to my porch swing to sip vodka!!!

Grey goose I hope ... come on over, I have a bottle in the freezer!

What confuses me is a carmel albino also called a carmel or are they different morphs altogether?

Same thing ... "caramel" is just short for caramel albino.

If a carmel albino is some sort of albino can it be mated to a "regular" albino.

Sure, you can breed anything to anything. But as of right now, they are two distinct and separate morphs, so breeding them together will produce normal looking snakes that carry the genes for both.

What the heck is T- T+ (best I could figure out in my currently confuddled state is it's some sort of genetic that does or doesn't produce a dark coloring).

The T+ and T- refer to two different types of albinism. The "T" is short for "tyrosinase" which is an enzyme responsible for the production of melanin and other pigments. Traditional albinos are said to be "T -" or tyrosinase negative (lacking the enzyme tyrosinase) which prevents the animal from producing it's natural coloration. Caramels are a different form of albinism where tyrosinase is believed to be preset (hence the tyrosinase positive or "T+" label), but functioning differently from normal appearing animals. All that said, I don't believe that any ball python has ever been tested for the presence of (or lack of) tyrosinase so it's all really just speculation. But it works for me!

Here's a picture of a T- next to a T+ ....



-adam

[xdeus]

producing it's natural coloration. Caramels are a different form of albinism where tyrosinase is believed to be preset (hence the tyrosinase positive or "T+" label), but functioning differently from normal appearing animals. All that said, I don't believe that any ball python has ever been tested for the presence of (or lack of) tyrosinase so it's all really just speculation. But it works for me!

Adam, are the different variations of regular albinos (high contrast, regular, lavender) just variations of a T-?

[frankykeno]

Adam my hero! You've saved me from a sad life of iced vodka and long rambling talks with Fifi about what outfit she'd like to wear today (hmmm the iced vodka bit wasn't all that sad really LOL)

Thanks for the clear explanation and the pic was awesome. Just a few more questions (the carmel is now my dream snake). I've also seen something called a Lavender Albino. How does this morph fit in with these other two albinos as far as the T thing, etc.

Looking at pics of carmels some seem more yellow, others darker. Is this just a genetic roll of dice thing (like how much white a pied will be) or do certain "lines" of carmels exhibit certain shades predominantly. Or perhaps carmels change shade with age?

Research said carmel albino is a simple recessive. Having just fried my brain with punnet squares....you have to breed either two 100% hets or a carmel to a 100% het, or a carmel to a carmel to produce any chance of a carmel correct? Have I got this anywhere near right?

For other newcomers reading this...I also found Markus Jayne's site (Canadian) helped a lot as well with this confusion.

http://www.ballpython.ca/genetics.html

[Eddie_Z]

In keeping with the whole vodka thing, Adam, I love Grey Goose but I am also VERY fond of Level Vodka. What are your thoughts on it!?

*Edit* Oh, yeah, nice pics BTW! LMAO! I guess the vodka talk got me thinking in the wrong places first!

[Adam_Wysocki]

Adam my hero! You've saved me from a sad life of iced vodka and long rambling talks with Fifi about what outfit she'd like to wear today (hmmm the iced vodka bit wasn't all that sad really LOL)

You didn't know that I have an "S" on my chest did you? (but if you've seen "The Incredibles" you would know that I don't have a cape)

Thanks for the clear explanation and the pic was awesome. Just a few more questions (the carmel is now my dream snake). I've also seen something called a Lavender Albino. How does this morph fit in with these other two albinos as far as the T thing, etc.

Well, no one really knows .... Since the tyrosinase thing is all theory in ball pythons (until someone actually does the test) we can only speculate. The popular belief is that the Lavs are also a form of T-. And if that's not confusing enough, wait until you see the red albino.

Looking at pics of carmels some seem more yellow, others darker. Is this just a genetic roll of dice thing (like how much white a pied will be) or do certain "lines" of carmels exhibit certain shades predominantly. Or perhaps carmels change shade with age?

Well, all ball pythons go through an ontogenetic color change, so older animals will always be darker and less crisp than juvis. I think the natural color variation of caramels is just like with any other morph ... there are screamers, lookers, and klunkers and screamers can throw klunkers and klunkers can produce screamers. It's all about trying to selectively breed for the best animals that you can. This is all very new really and we are just beginning to learn.

Research said carmel albino is a simple recessive. Having just fried my brain with punnet squares....you have to breed either two 100% hets or a carmel to a 100% het, or a carmel to a carmel to produce any chance of a carmel correct? Have I got this anywhere near right?

Yes ...

Het X Het = 25% of the clutch should be caramels, 50% of the clutch should be hets, and 25% of the clutch should be normals
Caramel x Het = 50% of the clutch should be caramels and 50% of the clutch should be hets
Caramel x Caramel = all of the clutch will be caramels.

But these are just the odds, with the exception of the caramel X caramel breeding, you could do better (more caramels) or worse (less or no caramels). It's just a matter of how the genes line up.

-adam

[Kara]

Also, just to clear things up a little more - a Caramel Glow is a caramel albino X orange ghost - basically a double homozygous mutation.



And now to confuse things...we've hatched T+ albinos & T- albinos in the same clutch before, from our original Caramel male bred back to one of his daughters. Weird, huh?

K~

[Adam_Wysocki]

In keeping with the whole vodka thing, Adam, I love Grey Goose but I am also VERY fond of Level Vodka. What are your thoughts on it!?

Bro, I'll drink anything that's not nailed down, and even then I'll try and find a straw, so just bring it!!

Seriously though, I've never tried Level ... I'll have to check it out ... I'm really mostly a corona and quervo guy. You know ... Bottle, shot ... Bottle, shot .... shot, Bottle, shot, shot .... shot, shot, shot .... Bottle ... shot ... sleep.

-adam

[Isshinharu]

Also, just to clear things up a little more - a Caramel Glow is a caramel albino X orange ghost - basically a double homozygous mutation.



And now to confuse things...we've hatched T+ albinos & T- albinos in the same clutch before, from our original Caramel male bred back to one of his daughters. Weird, huh?

K~

WOWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Check out those COLORS!!!! I want one!!!

[frankykeno]

*rubbing eyes* okay either I'm over-tired or my monitor is acting up...or did I just see a picture of a snake with what looked like purple, orange, cream, etc colors.....Carmel Glow???? If my computer showed me true colors that is about the most amazing looking ball python I've ever seen!

Wondering at this point if there's any possibility of being legally adopted by the people who run N.E.R.D. --- I'm a little old for it but hey I eat cheap, like to clean things, and I promise not to drag Mike and the kids along as part of the deal! LOL